[pjd2]

Right now, I am taking baby steps. I am trying to deal with this physcologically first, while starting to plan.

I really talked to my parents about this. I don't care if they think I am crazy, my mom said that no matter what happens we will stick together even if there are 20 people living under our roof. My step dad owns property in Wisconson on a lake near a farming community. If its a quick SHTF type scenario he said thats where we can bug out to. Neither one really believes that this could happen within our lifetime, but I am more than sold that it will.

I just cut all my frivoulous spending (my subscription based video game/ dvds/ and non essential books). i figure thats a good first step. Also I am scouring the internet for things to put in my bug-out-bag. BTW: has anyone experienced this; While buying things to put in your bag, do you feel guilty and saddened when you buy something?

Barbara, I am thankful for your comments. Hearing from someone as calm and collected as you is welcome. I am a little worried about my quality of life being lowered, but I am more concerened about being able to live a life of any quality. I am also saddened when I see my three year old niece and think of the things I had that she probally wont experience.

[RonMN]

Yes, I have felt a tad bit guilty when buying some old hand tools on Ebay...like a froe, and a hand cranked drill with drill bits included. Sometimes i felt like "why should i have this stock pile when it could do others as much good as it will for me" (?).

But over time i actually feel better & more prep'd that i have them...and i also remind myself that these items were being SOLD! if I didn't buy them...somebody else would have. Not to mention i can always share what i have when TSHTF (which i'm sure i will be, since i am not prepared to be 100% self sufficient, atleast i have goods and knowledge to offer a group/community).

[themotie]

RubyLady and trespam, I tip my hat! Nice to see someone(s) giving an alternative view to the the doomers.

I recognize the feeling Pat. Pretty much went through what you're going through about a year ago. I've surfed and read like hell to try to build a reasonable picture of the future, which of course ain't easy. Not least because of the rather large preponderance of doomers on sites like these.

I've said it before, and I'll keep repeating it: Things almost never go as bad as the fearmongers would have it, neither do things go as well as the happy-go-lucky's would have us believe. I can't see how we can avoid a recession and very possibly a depression. But like trespam said, we've done that before. It will hurt, sure. It hurts to get off drugs. But I have a hard time buying this end-of-the-world stuff.

As to preparations, I'm not so sure. Things like getting out of debt as much as possible, not owning a gas guzzler, making sure your home is well insulated and maybe getting geothermal heating or something – easy as pie [sort of) here at least, stuff like that must be pretty straight forward. But building a log cabin with a machine gun nest on top. I dunno ... Since I think society will survive after a fashion, I try to picture what it will be like.
Less personal transport – live close to public transport or within walking/biking distance of whatever you need to be close. Get a bike!
Less distribution – live reasonably close to a rasonably large town. You may want to avoid larger cities. I don't believe in living in the outback (and I don't mean just the Australian one ). There will be things you need and can't manufacture yourself. Transport WILL exist, just not as much of it. So staying close to transport (rail) nexuses would seem like a good idea.
Live somewhere that can sustain itself -ish. Food will be more local, so living in a reasonably good agricultural area can't be bad. It seems reasonable to avoid big urban sprawls and high population density areas
It can't be bad to learn how to grow things, even if you only have a garden plot. It may also help your anxiety . And so on.

We live in intreresting times.

[pjd2]

Thanks everyone,
It's nice to have both doomers, and um... semi less doomers responding to my posts. I think I'm begining to cope out of the distress to acceptence phase (we will see how long that lasts).

Anyway, I have come to accept that life as I know it will change, and even adamant doomers think that its not gonna be an overnight event, so I should have time to prepare for some of the worst. Right now I commute 20 miles to work, but I drive a Metro (~30 mpg in the city). So I only have to fill the tank once a week (10 gal tank) if I am careful. Its still economically better for me to live at home and do this commute. (Free food/no rent)... I might have to start helping out with the bills soon, but its still cheaper than me living on my own.

Im gonna forgo getting the new computer, and putting as much money in my 401k and instead throw the extra at my student debt.

The future is a scary place, but like my mom said... "It was just as scary when I had you. It was just as scary in the 50s with Nuclear threat. Think about your grandparents, and what they went through, think about the Greeks and Romans and the Bublonic Plauge (haha she was drinking at this point and got her facts confused), people always think the world will end. If it doesnt people will go on, if it does then what do you have to worry about?"

By the way Monte are you from Iceland? My parent company is located in Iceland. From what I've heard on this forum, you guys might be well off comparitively speaking if the proverbial fecal matter slops on the rotary air circulating device.

[themotie]

Iceland? Do you mean me? (Monte sounds more like that Arizona guy, but according to his location he's very apparently not from Iceland.) No I'm not. Iceland is one of them there viking colonies. I'm from one of the original homelands.
But I think that as far as western countries go, we're reasonably OK here, with lots of hydro and not that many people. Cold winters though.

[Barbara]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') am also saddened when I see my three year old niece and think of the things I had that she probally wont experience.

[pjd2]

oops... haha. yeah i meant themotie. sorry about that.

[pjd2]

Barbara,
Thank you very much for your candid repsonses, and no I do not feel like you are a women trying to get the last word in. The more advice the better.

I could see myself easily adapting to a sustainable lifestyle. Less power. Blackout times. No driving. Maybe even moving to a farm/sustainable community and really working for a living (not that I have the money for land, or the knowledge to do so yet).

I am just scared about the typical things; The massive die-off models. The carrying capacity of the western hemisphere. I'm scared about being a refugee. But I guess people have lived through bad times, and I guess people always will.

I know that this thread prolly isnt the place for these questions, and they more likely should be posted in Psychology and/or preparing for the future, but I feel that everyone that has responded to this thread so far has been helpful, so I will ask it here, and if any mods want to move it, please do.

These questions are for anyone:
How long have you known about peak oil?
How do you cope with the nagging negative/hoplessness feelings?

Thanks again all.

[themotie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pjd2', '
')How long have you known about peak oil?

[pjd2]

[Quote]And more reading up has sort of convinced me that the worst case scenarios are at least not unavoidable.[/Qoute]

For a second there the double negative made me think you said the worst case scenarios were unavoidable. And here I thought you were moderate! JK.

[venky]

I learnt about Peak Oil back in 2003. Seems like a long time ago. Back then the only sites talking about it were the one's like Jay Hanson'sdieoff.org. I freaked out ofcourse, didn't know it was another one of those cranky doomsday conspiracy theories or what. Also prices were low back then so there was little mention in the mainstream media, and I tried telling a bunch of people, but ofcourse everyone thought I was a nut.

Actually I put it out of my mind for almost a year, to be honest I more or less dismissed it. Not that oil production wouldn't peak, but that it was imminent or that the consequences would be that serious. Since there were no outward signs of crisis like now and prices were low, I was able to.

When prices rose last year, I began to read about it more and more seriously. There were more resources on the net by then, and a few articles in mainstream sources. I also read the work by Campbell and others and understood most of the theory and mathematics. There was a period of depression as the inevitable sunk in. And also since my initiation to the subject was through people like Jay Hanson and Savinar I feared the worst.

But I read more over the past year. I prepared what I could in my capacity. I'm a flat broke grad student although I'm lucky to have no debt.
I read about renewables and alternatives, and I see promising technologies that might mitigate our problems. I ofcourse accept the fact that life as we know it about to change drastically, but I am hopeful that with good leadership and technological advances we can come out of this with the more important aspects of our way of life and values intact. Perhaps if we are lucky it might mean nothing more than a serious recession or depression. I'm hopeful for my furture too. I probably am one of the more optimistic posters on this site.

I dont dismiss entirely the more pessimistic scenario's painted by others, but I look on them as consequences of our failure rather than our inevitable destiny.

[themotie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pjd2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd more reading up has sort of convinced me that the worst case scenarios are at least not unavoidable.[/Qoute]

For a second there the double negative made me think you said the worst case scenarios were unavoidable. And here I thought you were moderate! JK.

[pjd2]

Hi venky.
I just got out of grad school about 6 months ago. So you are pretty much in the same situation I am. I am a little more pessimistic than prolly the median person here, but I do not think I am quite the doomer...yet.
Unfortunatley I dont think electric or hydrogen cars is a solution by anymeans. Perhaps solar tractors, and maybe a more sustainible way of living, but sometimes those naughty thoughts creep in. You know?


What are you going to school for by the way? Im a chemist, MS.
Nice to meet you.

[venky]

I'm in EE, MS although I might do a PhD.

I dont think there is any one source of energy that can replace oil, atleast it doesn't exist today. But even with today's technologies, it is possible theoritically atleast to get atleast a significant portion of our energy needs from a combination of renewables. Althought scaling it up is an enormous challenge and will take decades. Ofcourse there is the enormous problem of liquid fuels for transportation which uses I think almost 70% of our oil. That is why many refer to Peak Oil as a liquid fuel crisis as opposed to an energy crisis.

Look up the threads on energy technology on this site. And listen to some multimedia stuff under 'mp3'. The presentation by Dr Smalley is an eye opener.

[pjd2]

that's cool.

Where can I get the 'mp3' ?
And is it a positive eye opener or a negative eye opener? Remember I just found out about PO. You dont want to put me over the edge do you?

[venky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pjd2', 't')hat's cool.

Where can I get the 'mp3' ?
And is it a positive eye opener or a negative eye opener? Remember I just found out about PO. You dont want to put me over the edge do you?

[pjd2]

is that 15TW worldwide, or US? I thought the US only used something like 3TW (I guess it could have been 13Tw)

[venky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pjd2', 'i')s that 15TW worldwide, or US? I thought the US only used something like 3TW (I guess it could have been 13Tw)

[MrBill]

Wow, I think I just joined the wrong online forum group? Doomers, survivalists, get your gun, communes... Hmm, I was looking for a forum about trading oil & gas and up to the minute chats about what is going on in the world of oil & gas and energy markets in general? Am I in the wrong place? Oh well, seeing I am here, I may as well read what others have to say about resource depletion and what it means. I am not too worried about a world post-oil. I just think it is a shame to burn a valuable feedstock for want of a viable alternative like hydrogen? We finally learnt it was better to build furniture out of oak trees than to burn it is as fuel, so maybe we'll eventually see the folly of recklessly wasting so much 'cheap' crude oil, too? Interesting site. I hope I am not interloping too much?

[mermaid]

You're not in the wrong place, it depents on how you deal with all this. We all discuss about oil and gas, running out and things.
We all try to find solutions, and it is simple, the solutions are limited so we all have to prepare ourselves to a uncertain future. And maybe you can join us to think about it. The more people joining in, the better.

it is also that we react on the latest news, very important though.

i'm gonna eat some fries now, my job....(i have to feed a powerplant...)