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THE Gas Rationing Thread (merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby Leanan » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 23:09:07

AOL's top story is high gas prices. They're posting some of their members' stories.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')I am a truck driver and have watched my fuel bill go from $1,000 a week in May/June to $1,300 a week now."
"I live in Deltona, Fla., and last night all of the gas stations on route to I-4 (a major highway in Florida) were all closed or had a line 30 cars deep fighting for gas."
"Thursday morning I paid $2.89 for regular gas, Thursday evening at the same pump, I paid $3.19. By Friday morning at 2AM, I paid $3.50. What's next for me?" -- NY limousine driver
"Paying $2.95 for regular, up 30 cents since Tuesday."
-- cyoshimoto
"Paying $3.89 in Connersville, Ind... Diesel is still only $2.79."
-- hrowljr
"No problem with the price of gas here in eastern Florida... there isn't any."
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby Armageddon » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 23:57:52

i am keeping my car, my wifes car, and my work van filled up every day. im in st.louis and its 2.99 here. seems like a bargain compared to some of you people. thankfully i have a quick trip gas station only .5 miles from my house.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby Free » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 00:02:12

Just saw a german TV-report about a gas-prize insurance (against sudden prize rises). If the gas prize rises a certain amount within a certain timeframe, the insurance covers the difference between lower and higher prize....

Clever idea, I only hope that insurer is insured himself.... :shock:
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby bp_jason » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 00:08:37

Do people know realize wholesale prices for gas on the gulf coast are near $4.00. In the midwest wholesale is $3.60. Stations selling below these levels are selling at a loss. NYMEX is not wholesale. PLATTS quotes are close to wholesale.
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Re: Gas Rationing. Now today

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 00:19:46

I'll by walking by the station I used to go to most of the time in the morning too, have to remember to take a look at the prices.
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Re: Gasoline update for East Tennessee/Western North Carolin

Unread postby jdmartin » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 01:10:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DoctorDoom', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', 'W')e use a small ford ranger for meter reading...it's mostly rural.

Why not use wireless technology and read the meters remotely? You could reduce the number of physical meter reads to, say, once a year at which time you'd check and if necessary replace the battery.

Well, considering that I've run the numbers on this many tiimes in the past few years, it's not as if it hasn't been considered. However,
1. Physically reading the meter provides employment for the community.
2. Physically reading the meter provides public relations opportunities for the District with its customers, the way simply driving by does not.
3. Physically reading the meter provides instant optical verification on issues such as leaks - not only from the customer's side of the meter but also our own.
4. Physically reading the meter is still cheaper for us. Radio reader meters cost about $125 per meter, plus the software and hardware to read the meters. A normal replacement meter right now costs about $35. I have 1 dedicated employee that spends 2 weeks each month reading meters. With a radio reader he'd spend 2 or 3 days each month. (Figure 3 days for going back and re-checking high/low reads, etc).

$125 per meter x 3300 meters = $412,500. With hardware you're looking at approx $500,000 for my system. Labor savings each month is about 7 days. Meter reader makes (including benefits) ~ $20/hr. =$1120 savings each month. No real savings on meters since radio readers last about the same amount of time as a typical meter (~10 years). Gas savings from not driving around might equal 20 gallons per month. 20 gallons x $4 per gallon (hey, I'm a doomer :razz: ) = $80 per month fuel savings.

So just to be simple, figure $1120 labor savings, $80 fuel savings, $50 assorted savings (truck wear & tear, etc) each month. That's $1250 savings per month. $1250 x 12 months = $15000 annual savings.
$500,000 cost of radio reader system divided by $15,000 annual savings = 33 year cost recapture.
Generally in the world of municipal management, anything that can't be recaptured within 5-7 years is not good business sense (exceptions for long-lasting capital improvements, i.e. water tanks).
I am a big proponent of technology, and use quite a bit of it (GIS, for example). But radio reads for towns of 10,000 or less just don't make any sense unless you had to do a complete meter replacement program, and even then you're still talking about 20 year cost recapture. By then, you need to completely replace the system again, meaning your cost recapture would continuously add into the future (in other words, you'd never recover the cost). Mostly they work out for huge cities, not rural areas like my system. In a large city, if you can reduce personnel by 3,4,5 or more employees, it has a much quicker recapture. In my case, I'd still need to have that guy on staff, even if he was only working part-time.
After fueling up their cars, Twyman says they bowed their heads and asked God for cheaper gas.There was no immediate answer, but he says other motorists joined in and the service station owner didn't run them off.
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Re: Gasoline update for East Tennessee/Western North Carolin

Unread postby BabyPeanut » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 07:48:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', '$')4 per gallon
Optimist!
=========== plus ===========
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://www.livejournal.com/users/catsluvdmb/482539.html]Gas Story (link)[/url] by catsluvdmb
So like a dumbass I didn't fill up with gas last night and today gas went up to over $3/gallon in Raleigh, which is a 50 cent jump from last night. I'm pissed off because I forgot to fill up. When I was driving to my tutoring job I found a station that was selling gas for $2.70/gallon and I say "Hey, I should fill up here while I have the chance." Sweet!
There was a line around the block but I figure, "I really need gas, I'll wait and get $25 worth." I get behind this landscaping truck that's filling up not only its truck, but also its equipment. I figure no big deal, I can wait. The Uenos won't kill me for being late to tutoring.

Finally the truck leaves and I go to pull into the pump after waiting 20 minutes. Well this chick decides to try to cut me off to get to the pump and bumps the front corner of my car. I get out to inspect the damage, see there is none, give her the finger, and start pumping gas.
Well the chick FREAKS OUT. We're talking screaming banshee, psychotic breakdown freaking out. She gets out of her car and starts screaming at me, waving her arms, cussing, etc. I choose to ignore her because I don't have time for this shit. I continue pumping gas and she keeps screaming at me and starts approaching me screaming.

This guy comes up and says, "Lady, what is your problem exactly?"
"I'M GOING TO BE LATE FOR WORK AND THIS CUNT WOULDN'T LET ME GET GAS AND BLAH BLAH BLAH FUCK THE WORLD BLAH BLAH!!"
The guy keeps telling her to calm down and she keeps screaming her head off on how it's not fair that I'm pumping gas. The guy says to her, "Lady, I've been waiting here for 20 minutes. This girl was waiting here for 20 minutes. You have to wait in line like everyone else."
She starts advancing on him screaming about how he needs to stay out of her shit and how he's an asshole blah blah blah. This woman was absolutely livid. At this point the guy reaches into his back pocket and pulls out a badge. Turns out he was an off duty officer and he says to her, "Ma'am, get the fuck back in your car and either wait like everyone else or leave. I will arrest you if you do not get into your car." You know you're in trouble when a Southern cop starts swearing at you. I have NEVER heard a North Carolina cop swear before.

Does the woman back down and get into her car like a rational human being would? NO. She starts screaming about how he's a fucking fake, that it's a fake badge, he can't do shit to her blah blah blah. The officer disappears into his car for a minute, then comes back out and says, "Ma'am get back in your car" etc etc. And she doesn't.
At this point I'm scared shitless because not only am I in the middle of something I REALLY DON'T WANT TO BE IN, this woman is fucking insane and EVERYONE is staring at us. I am praying that the gas gods speed up the pump so I can just get out of this situation.

Right as I finish filling up, two cop cars come screaming into the gas station and arrest the woman. The officer who helped me comes up and asks if I want to press charges against the woman. I say no, I really just want to leave etc. He takes my name and number in case they need a statement later and I get the hell out of dodge.
Who thought getting a tank of gas would turn into a war zone?
If anyone sees a news story at all about what happened, please link it. They might have just let her go after calming down since I said I didn't want to press charges but if they kept her I'm sure it will pop up in the papers somewhere.
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Re: Gas Rationing. Now today

Unread postby k_semler » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 08:28:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Muffloj', 'I') just got a phone call and was told we may be rationing gas as of 7:00 this afternoon only 10 gallons at a time. any one heard this . is it true?

Fine by me. That would do me good for a week. But I usually fill up every 3 days so the price jump isn't such a big deal. I treat .75 tank as a quarter tank. I don't even renember the last time I actually had a quarter tank.
Here Lies the United States Of America.

July 04, 1776 - June 23 2005

Epitaph: "The Experiment Is Over."

Rest In Peace.

Eminent Domain Was The Murderer.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby pilferage » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 08:32:44

Your networking both disturbs and fascinates BP!

++PC
"Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. "
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby No-Oil » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 08:34:35

Do any of you have locking fuel filler caps/falps on your cars ?
Do you know why ?
Becuase of the fuel shortages in the 70's, when ordinary people resorted to stealing gas because they could not afford it or there was none to be had.
I remember seeing whole streets of cars sitting with their flaps open where the fuel had been robbed in the night. In the early 70's NO cars had locking fuel caps !!!!!
Be warned it will happen again.

In the 79/80 fuel crissis when many cars had locking fuel caps, the purps resorted to using a screw driver, to pop a hole in the fuel tank from below & catch the fuel in a pan. So guarding the filler point is no defence. Most cars have plastic tanks now that make this sort of theft even easier !
Be careful.
The roller coaster is still climbing, but it's near the top now !
Where there's a WAR there's a WAY :(
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby DigitalCubano » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 09:08:30

JD, keep those posts coming. :) I find the anectodal posts enlightening because they put all of these issues in the proper context (i.e. how they affect real business and folks).

I have yet to hear of any hoarding up here in Massachusetts. Prices in the metro Boston area are pretty much in the lower $3.00 range for a gallon of regular unleaded. However, there is some price disparity among the different gas companies, with Shell gas being priced a good $0.10 more than their competitors across the street. My family tells me that it's a different story down in the metro Miami area, as a good number of stations are out of at least regular grade. Having lived in and visited a number of US cities in the past decade, I find that few places are more car dependent than South Florida (Houston might be worse). Even with $3.00+ gas my pleas to them about biking and walking to take care of some errands are still falling on deaf ears.

On a lighter note, my family thinks that I am some kind of economic savant given how I warned them to hoarde on Sunday! Peak OIl awareness: bringing the family together and making the parents proud. :-D
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby Leanan » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 10:07:27

This story from USA Today is fascinating: LINK
People are really going nuts. Truckers are going broke, because they quoted prices weeks ago.
This is so insane. People waiting in line for hours, just to save $5 on a tank of gas.
In my town, the gas station that had the low price yesterday ($3.19) is now up to $3.39. 8O
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby thorn » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 10:59:04

In Frederick, someone told me that a gas station did not increase their prices as the others around it did. So people just drained it, the station ran out of gas!!! It was around $2.89 while the others were $3+.
Highest I saw was $3.49 this morning. It was a "Lowest Price" station. BP down the street was $2.99, I think they should change their name to "Highest Price" :twisted:
I heard the the independent stations that buy the lower end gas that comes from the gas that gets mixed in the pipeline between batches. They do not have contracts so are paying more for gas now since the gas is not flowing.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby zceb90 » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 11:01:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', 'W')e are confident that our customers really need to fly since we've managed to suppress the railroad system so effectively for so long. We are also confident that they can charge ever more on their credit cards too.

That's quite a contrast with UK where we've retained our main passenger rail routes (and some cross country and local routes as well). I live at one end of the country (NE Scotland), the furthest part of UK from here is Cornwall which is 800 miles away. It takes around 13 hrs by train from my local station (17 miles away and free parking); I can also get to anywhere else in UK same day mostly by rail with last part of trip maybe a short bus or taxi trip. London for example is 500 miles away or a 6-3/4 hr rail trip with services roughly hourly (some require a change in Edinburgh).

The key point here is although it's quicker to fly long distances and driving offers door to door travel I don't have to fly or drive. The choice is thus there and as fuel prices escalate the balance will tip more in favour of rail. That's the way it should be.... as Kunstler keeps saying 'the US should get its railroad system in order before energy becomes even more expensive'.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby gluc0se » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 12:43:02

From my mom's friend in North Carolina:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')orgot to tell you -- gas stations closed yesterday here & in nearby towns.
Word is they won't open for 4 days. The news this a.m. said 47 stations in Charlotte are outta gas. North Carolina in general is running out.---Laurie
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Re: Jeb Bush warns of actual gas shortages in Florida

Unread postby SupplyConcerns » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 13:11:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'D')id I not say GM was against electric vehicles? I know they're betting the future on SUVs and that they're $300 billion in debt. Peak oil will kill them off since they made bad choices years back, unless big government keeps propping them up with our hard earned tax dollars(which will likely happen).

My father owns a car dearlership selling primarily GM cars. Since I'm not quite out of the house yet (halfway through college), the impending GM implosion could really turn things upside down for me. Oh well... at least I've been well off for most of my life thanks to the success of GM (morally justified or not).
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby frankthetank » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 13:46:46

Gas was 2.99 around here and i haven't seen/heard anything locally to suggest we are running out of gas.

Anyone want to take a shot and say when prices will fall to preKatrina levels (roughly 2.50 locally)??? I say Halloween...HA HA
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby Revi » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 13:51:51

Your dad could get a lot of GM's smaller vehicles and sell plenty very soon. Suzuki will still be turning out cars people need and want for a while yet (and they are a GM subsidiary)
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby Leanan » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 16:50:15

Motorists, many whom are residents of Biloxi, Mississippi, push their car to conserve fuel as they wait in line to buy fuel on Interstate 10 in Biloxi September 1, 2005.
LINK
The California attorney general is opening a gas-profiteering investigation: LINK
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ecause America's most-populous state gets none of its crude oil and little refined product from the hurricane-devastated Gulf of Mexico, California Attorney General Bill Locker said, retailers should not be using the disaster to explain a spike in prices
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby DoctorDoom » Fri 02 Sep 2005, 17:46:38

No signs of shortage here in the golden state. Prices have bumped up about 20 cents, with regular unleaded right around $3.00. I am wondering if we will have to reduce our consumption so that gas can be diverted to hard-pressed regions in the east. I'm prepared to do this, but no one here is going on TV to ask us to conserve and there is little awareness that we might be impacted - it is business as usual. (I don't mean to characterize my fellow Californians as heartless - pretty much everyone I know is sending money to the Red Cross in response to the disaster, it's just that people don't yet see that it might affect them personally.)

My mom lives in Virginia, according to her there are already reports of people driving away from the pump and not paying, and reports of people siphoning gas. No shortages, this is just how they are reacting to high prices. Here in California you have to pay before you pump, usually with a credit card. In Virginia there are still a lot of stations where you go up and pay afterward, and these stations are closing pumps except for the ones near the cashier so he/she can watch for thieves.
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