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THE Gas Rationing Thread (merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby crossthread » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 00:12:26

My Local news 11 PM EST...Wilmington NC...
Local Gas Stations Running Out of Gas
AUGUST 31, 2005 --One GoGas in Wilmington has no gas. At least if you're filling up with regular and premium.
It was bumper to bumper just moments before they closed the pumps. An employee at GoGas says this is the wrath of Hurricane Katrina in Wilmington. link :twisted:
Governor says Gas Shortage is Looming Statewide
Aug 31, 2005, 09:34 PM link

Fuel Frenzy Takes Toll on Airlines Aug 31, 2005, 05:44 PM link
WHAT SAY WE NOW???? :twisted:
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby Eli » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 00:37:18

The Colonial Pipeline has a capacity to move 2.35 million barrels per day.
It would take 11,000 tanker trucks leaving every two minutes to transport that much fuel.
The pipeline cannot be replaced with trucks.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby richardmmm » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 00:39:52

it's also logically impossible that pipelines from the hurricane area that has only 10% of the nations refineries is responsible for nationwide gas shortages.
the other 90% of refineries are still in action and there is plenty of inventory.
it is also interesting that whilst the press is harking on about lack of refinery capacity in the US, that over 2% of gaoline supplies were exported (shipped overseas) in June 2005.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby richardmmm » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 00:40:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('richardmmm', 't')he gas shortages don't add up at all. the US has 194 million barrels of gasoline inventory. That is 8.1 billion gallons of gas on hand.

Yes it does. Those "inventories" need somehow get to the consumers.
Two main pipelines down from Gulf to north and east. People there hoarding, panicking, and buying gas stations empty. Simple as that.

a localised shortage is not a national shortage or any kind of real crisis. it's just a bit of local logistical and distribution trouble until things are sorted out again.

there is a difference between the two and the media is haming it up quite a bit. don't suppose they mentioned that there is plenty of gas available and they are going to truck it over.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby richardmmm » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 00:47:41

link
peak oil = price manipulation and consumer fear to sustain a high price.
very simple salesmanship.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby Z » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 00:52:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('richardmmm', 'p')eak oil = price manipulation and consumer fear to sustain a high price.

And who manipulates the price ? "them" of course. :roll:
Freedom is up to the length of the chain.
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Re: Gas Rationing. Now today

Unread postby MicroHydro » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 01:38:04

Nice time to buy a bicycle before there are runs on them too.
"The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
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Re: Gas Rationing. Now today

Unread postby Sgs-Cruz » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 01:46:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'N')ice time to buy a bicycle before there are runs on them too.

A bicycle's a little too big of a purchase for there to be a "run" on them, I'd think... at least if you're talking about Trek, Cannondale, those types. There may be a run on Huffys and Wal-Mart bikes.
My bike's fully working except it needs a new bottom bracket :( -- I wonder if there's going to be a run on Cannondale parts. That would suck.
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Re: Gas Rationing. Now today

Unread postby BabyPeanut » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 04:10:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Muffloj', 'I') just got a phone call and was told we may be rationing gas as of 7:00 this
afternoon only 10 gallons at a time. any one heard this . is it true?

Ha! That's more than a fill up for my Honda Civic EX.
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Re: Gas Rationing. Now today

Unread postby Macsporan » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 04:36:59

My heart goes out the the afflicted, but is there a chance, just a chance, that this catastrophe will get people thinking seriously about PO and the future of the world they live in, and the need to prepare for change, internally and externally?
If so, it may be a blessing in disguise.
I pray so.
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Re: Gas Rationing. Now today

Unread postby SmokinJuan » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 04:59:31

Just outside of Indianapolis I noticed a sign printed on an 8.5X11 sheet of paper taped to the counter stating that there was a fifty gallon ration (I belive it also said imposed by the state). I'd like to say who the hell uses 50 gallons of fuel but then realize that it was posted at a TA truck stop. Guess I'll be riding the motorcycle for a while.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby BabyPeanut » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 06:54:57

I was exausted and fell asleep early with the lights on. After that I couldn't sleep. Around 5:00 AM here I went to get gas. The Sunoco nearby was out of regular at least. I didn't think to try the midrange or premium, I just went to another station where the prices were higher.

Oh and I got hit on by two people asking for handouts. When I moved here there never were people asking for hand outs. Not during the 90s.
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Re: Jeb Bush warns of actual gas shortages in Florida

Unread postby MJ » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 07:39:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Free', 'M')ark my words: It will be business as usual very soon, and afterwards everybody will shrug it off and be happy to forget the shortage as soon as possible. And it will be seen as a confirmation of the view that "they will save us". So in my opinion it will be very counterproductive for PO preparation, because it was just another temporary crisis like in the 70ies which went away again, and surely every crisis in the future will be like that. An oil shock, a spike blah blah blah.

Exactly my thoughts! People want to and will forget any inconvenient event in their life.
The fact that nobody seems to be willing to recognise the main cause of a(near) shortage (or very limited reserves at least) being a supply/demand problem at the ageing and declining fields, and not being an artificial crisis due to hurricanes, terrorists or speculators, leads me to believe people will go on just as they were used to be. And I'm not talking Americans, we Europeans join the game with enthusiasm, and we're looking the other side with an even greater enthusiasm.
In my country, consumer and public organisations start to put pressure on the government to lower taxes on fuels. Allthough we do have one of the highest taxes on petrol, it sends the wrong signal. First quarter of the year, petrol consumption was down by 11% compared to last year, ofcourse this was caused by high prices. Lowering taxes makes petrol cheaper again, which in turn will boost demand (and consumption) instead of lowering it. This certainly will not mitigate transition to alternative fuels, at the contrary, it will lead to accelerated and steeper decline...

What people fail to realise, is that high energy prices are here to stay, in spite of campaigns like the Chevron ads, mainstream media attention or high petrol prices. This is NOT a temporary spike, this will NOT go away anytime soon and we probably will NOT be able to maintain our exuberant life-style as it is today.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
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Do not run out and buy extra gas!

Unread postby MD » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 07:54:28

Panic buying is fueling spot shortage problems and price spikes across the US. Some retailers are selling 200-300% more gasoline per day due to panic buying.
If the US has 100 million vehicles that on average are half full, and only 10 percent of those drivers decide to stay "topped off" due to fear, the the daily demand spike would be 70 million gallons! (10 million gas tanks going from an average of 7 gallons on hand to 14 gallons on hand)
Everyone needs to chill. In a couple weeks it will be mostly "business as usual" except for a few communities along the gulf coast.
relax! Peak Oil won't go away! 8)
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Do not run out and buy extra gas!

Unread postby LadyRuby » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 08:05:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'I')n a couple weeks it will be mostly "business as usual" except for a few communities along the gulf coast.

Nice to be optimistic, but do you really think so?? I mean, I agree that panic buying won't help the situation, but this will be a problem for quite a while I think. No, it's not peak oil, but it may leap us into a "shorter-term" energy crisis (both gas and natural gas) that may end up blending in later with peak oil issues. So maybe things will improve quite a bit in a couple of years, but maybe not.
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Re: Do not run out and buy extra gas!

Unread postby MD » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 08:15:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'I')n a couple weeks it will be mostly "business as usual" except for a few communities along the gulf coast.
Nice to be optimistic, but do you really think so?? I mean, I agree that panic buying won't help the situation, but this will be a problem for quite a while I think. No, it's not peak oil, but it may leap us into a "shorter-term" energy crisis (both gas and natural gas) that may end up blending in later with peak oil issues. So maybe things will improve quite a bit in a couple of years, but maybe not.
Yes, I really do think so. The current crisis will fade from headline view rather quickly to be soon replaced by recessionary problems followed by a heating crisis this winter. This round of gasoline shortages will be a brief blip.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Do not run out and buy extra gas!

Unread postby BabyPeanut » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 08:18:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'I')f the US has 100 million vehicles that on average are half full, and only 10 percent of those drivers decide to stay "topped off" due to fear, the the daily demand spike would be 70 million gallons!

But once all tanks and storage containers are full then there's no place else for the gas to go?
Won't that have the opposite effect? If you couple it to economically-driven forced conservation then there will be demand destruction.
Besides if we don't hoard it someone else will.
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Re: Do not run out and buy extra gas!

Unread postby MD » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 08:25:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'I')f the US has 100 million vehicles that on average are half full, and only 10 percent of those drivers decide to stay "topped off" due to fear, the the daily demand spike would be 70 million gallons!

But once all tanks and storage containers are full then there's no place else for the gas to go? Won't that have the opposite effect? If you couple it to economically-driven forced conservation then there will be demand destruction. Besides if we don't hoard it someone else will.

Looking at the other side of the inventory blip, when people relax you get a temporary glut. The feedback loop could "ring" for a while if the inventory managers don't get a grip and if the consumers remain hyperactive.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby Leanan » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 08:36:11

CNN was interviewing some Wall St. economist this morning. He was astonished that gas prices had gone so high. He said he never even imagined it.
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Re: Fuel Shortages News and Discussion

Unread postby MD » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 08:40:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')he Colonial Pipeline has a capacity to move 2.35 million barrels per day. It would take 11,000 tanker trucks leaving every two minutes to transport that much fuel. The pipeline cannot be replaced with trucks.

Math check!
2.35 million divided by 50k per load is 47 loads per day...that's two an hour
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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