[JoeW]

What if it was done with a nuclear spaceship, thereby converting nuclear energy into hydrocarbon energy?
The present energy situation on earth is that there is enough uranium, but not enough hydrocarbons.

[Jenab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Antimatter', 'N')ice analysis! However:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')bviously, Titan could supply a human colony in the Saturn system with energy for centuries - if there were such a colony.

[whereagles]

I've seen some crazy ideas for peak oil solutions, but this "Titan oil farming" rates to be in the top of unfeasibility

[Jenab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('whereagles', 'I')'ve seen some crazy ideas for peak oil solutions, but this "Titan oil farming" rates to be in the top of unfeasibility

[Jenab]

Another complication in finding a low-energy transfer orbit from Saturn to Earth arises from the fact that Saturn's orbit and Earth's orbit exist in different planes. I will demonstrate.

Saturn's orbital elements
semimajor axis, 9.55491 AU
eccentricity, 0.05551
inclination, 2.489 degrees
longitude of ascending node, 113.666 degrees
argument of perihelion, 339.391 degrees
time of perihelion passage, JD 2452832.9 = 12 July 2003 at 9h 36m UT

Earth's orbital elements
semimajor axis, 1.000000 AU
eccentricity, 0.016710
inclination, 0.0 degrees
longitude of ascending node, 0.0 degrees
argument of perihelion, 102.94719 degrees
time of perihelion passage, JD 2453009.3 = 4 January 2004 at 19:12 UT

The elements of the transfer orbit
semimajor axis, 5.178257 AU
eccentricity, 0.805321
inclination, 50.56564 degrees
longitude of ascending node, 161.52564 degrees
argument of perihelion, 182.44836 degrees

The time of departure: JD 2454755.5 = 16 October 2008 at 0h 0m UT
The time of arrival: JD 2456905.6 = 5 September 2014 at 2h 24m UT

The transfer orbit is an ellipse with aphelion at departure.
The transit time is 2150.1 days.
The transit change in true anomaly is 177.55164 degrees.

The transfer orbit's angular momentum (per unit mass) vector is
hx = +1.471152E+15 m^2 sec^-1
hy = +4.403359E+15 m^2 sec^-1
hz = +3.818150E+15 m^2 sec^-1

The departure velocity (sun relative, heliocentric ecliptic coordinates) is
V1x = -690.2 m/s
V1y = -2645.3 m/s
V1z = +3316.7 m/s

The departure delta vee (sun relative, heliocentric ecliptic coordinates) is
dV1x = +2643.0 m/s
dV1y = +6614.8 m/s
dV1z = +3022.4 m/s
dV1 (magnitude) = 7.738 km/sec

The arrival velocity (sun relative, heliocentric ecliptic coordinates) is
V2x = +7299.0 m/s
V2y = +24344.0 m/s
V2z = -30772.2 m/s

The arrival delta vee (sun relative, heliocentric ecliptic coordinates) is
dV2x = +1655.3 m/s
dV2y = +3898.2 m/s
dV2z = +30772.2 m/s
dV2 (magnitude) = 31.062 km/sec

Notice that the magnitude of the sun-relative velocity - that's V2, not dV2 - is about what I said in my original post: 39.91 km/sec. Under ideal astrodynamic circumstances, Earth and the approaching cargo vessel would be moving in the same direction, with the cargo vessel moving faster and thus overtaking Earth. Earth's sun-relative orbital speed would be subtracted from the cargo vessel's sun-relative orbital speed when calculating the Earth-relative speed of the cargo vessel.

Unfortunately, this is a highly inclined transfer orbit, and the cargo vessel is intercepting Earth at a steep angle to Earth's own motion around the sun. So the better part of the "velocity cancellation" that would occur in the ideal encounter does not occur in this one.

Jerry Abbott

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab', '(')2. "Feeding the hungry" has apparently cost us the chance to create something of enduring worth beyond the confines of our planet. And it may be a chance lost to us forever.)

[ohanian]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

You got to think BIG. Think laterally.

Use the hydrocarbon cargo to smash straight into the moon.

This will cause the moon to come closer to the earth. Then this
will cause bigger tide forces.

Next, use the tidal electrical generation scheme to extract the
energy to power our toyota prius.

[Licho]

What about using aerobraking system? With advanced materials, containers could withstand touch with atmosphere at 11km/s and slow down..

[Jenab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab', '(')2. "Feeding the hungry" has apparently cost us the chance to create something of enduring worth beyond the confines of our planet. And it may be a chance lost to us forever.)

[Jenab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Licho', 'W')hat about using aerobraking system? With advanced materials, containers could withstand touch with atmosphere at 11km/s and slow down..

[Licho]

You could aerobrake to orbital velocity with more passes! Perhaps orbit could be calculated to aerobrake around Earth (stripping some of the speed) and then slingshot/brake around some other inner planet ..
We do not need cargo immediately Who cares if it's 7 years instead of 5 in transit?

And yes, at orbital speed, it will be no problem to brake even with current materials .. you could do many aerobraking orbits before final entry.

But still, are there really liquid hydrocarbons on Titan?

[emersonbiggins]

It's ironic that we're discussing harvesting resources from halfway across the solar system rather than learning to use the resources we already have more efficiently and responsibly.

[Jenab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Licho', 'Y')ou could aerobrake to orbital velocity with more passes! Perhaps orbit could be calculated to aerobrake around Earth (stripping some of the speed) and then slingshot/brake around some other inner planet ..
We do not need cargo immediately Who cares if it's 7 years instead of 5 in transit?

And yes, at orbital speed, it will be no problem to brake even with current materials .. you could do many aerobraking orbits before final entry.

But still, are there really liquid hydrocarbons on Titan?

[Jenab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'I')t's ironic that we're discussing harvesting resources from halfway across the solar system rather than learning to use the resources we already have more efficiently and responsibly.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'I')t's ironic that we're discussing harvesting resources from halfway across the solar system rather than learning to use the resources we already have more efficiently and responsibly.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab', 'E')xtreme conservation should have been practiced from the beginning of the Industrial Age, at least from 1900 on, and better if it had begun in 1750.

[aflurry]

This thread is fun. It's like watching an episode of Star Trek written by Himmler.

[DigitalCubano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', 'T')his thread is fun. It's like watching an episode of Star Trek written by Himmler.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

Do you kids remember what they taught you in schools?
Or how about them after school specials?



Crack is bad!! Please don't use crack!!

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab', ' ')No, don't. Not literally anyway. People should not breed more than they can support by their own labor.