Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

How to become a feudal lord!!

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby dagod1 » Mon 29 Aug 2005, 22:17:55

After playing many computer games that start in the dark ages I have devized a plan. Please let me know how to improve it.

Assuming I am stable and have 100 acres and plenty of food grown for myself and family and have ammo and guns.

#1 begin buy getting starving people to work you fields for food. Build your number of workers and land over the years until you can grow more food than you need.

#2Then feed your people for pay to protect you. Once you have people protecting you get people/workers to build your defenses like a wall of some kind that surrounds your land/new kingdom.

#3 Begin building a small force to take over other small groups around you, get those supplies and land and get them working. Do this enough times and you become pretty large in terms of people under your rule and your land.

Any other ideas, I would like to be a better than average king?

Any ideas?

This is after the fall of the USA of course, It will be hard to fight swords vs, bullets or what ever.,

Rob :twisted:
User avatar
dagod1
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun 21 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Central IL

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby skyemoor » Mon 29 Aug 2005, 22:34:29

Clever idea, and it's been a popular game for over a decade;

Civilization (and Civilization II)

Can be addicting; careful, WhiteKnight...
http://www.carfree.com
http://ecoplan.org/carshare/cs_index.htm
http://www.velomobile.de/GB/Advantages/advantages.html

Chance favors the prepared mind. -- Louis Pasteur

He that lives upon hope will die fasting. --Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
skyemoor
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sat 16 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 29 Aug 2005, 22:40:07

Why is feudalism so popular, but tribalism gets the razz?

Is it because everyone likes to fancy himself the feudal lord, and never the serf?

Is it because having to get along with people in a tribal situation just seem too darn difficult?


:P
Ludi
 

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby GoIllini » Mon 29 Aug 2005, 22:51:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dagod1', 'A')fter playing many computer games that start in the dark ages I have devized a plan. Please let me know how to improve it.

Assuming I am stable and have 100 acres and plenty of food grown for myself and family and have ammo and guns.

#1 begin buy getting starving people to work you fields for food. Build your number of workers and land over the years until you can grow more food than you need.

#2Then feed your people for pay to protect you. Once you have people protecting you get people/workers to build your defenses like a wall of some kind that surrounds your land/new kingdom.

#3 Begin building a small force to take over other small groups around you, get those supplies and land and get them working. Do this enough times and you become pretty large in terms of people under your rule and your land.

Any other ideas, I would like to be a better than average king?

Any ideas?

This is after the fall of the USA of course, It will be hard to fight swords vs, bullets or what ever.,

Rob :twisted:


Being pretty naive about war, myself, (maybe a little less naive about leading a bunch of folks without the comforts of civilization than about war, though), I would argue that real-life is going to be a heckuvalot scarier than a video game.

My experience has been that good leaders tend to work as followers and lead by example. That means that if you're going to be a feudal lord expecting folks to go into battle, you're probably going to be on the front lines. If you're not up to the task of risking life and limb, someone else will take over as leader for you, and you'll wind up as a peasant unless you have helpful skills. (Lucky me; I'm studying in the college of Engineering at my school.)

My suggestion: learn to fire a weapon, buy a few bulletproof vests, and if you're really buying into a doomsday peak oil scenario, join the military.

Failing that, start putting money into oil stocks, make friends with someone who grew up on a farm, and when oil hits $200/barrel and your stocks have a P/E of 15, sell them, and you and your friend can pick out a nice plot of land on some fertile but remote plot of land. I've only been out to Washington Island and a few other islands out in the Great Lakes, but IMHO, an island community out there might very well be the perfect place to ride out the peak oil storm. No sea level change, longer growing season, fewer people to fight with over food, and little attention from the rest of the world. Islands out there are going to head back to the way they were in 1900, and it'll be a nice vacation (besides backbreaking work during planting and harvest.)

To be quite honest, feudal lordship is for people who don't plan ahead but still want to come in second or third place. Living in a community of self-sufficient folks where there's still plenty of culture, and then being in a position to help the world rebuild after 20-30 years (in the doom-and-gloom scenario) is for the folks who can see this coming.

Remember, this is real life. Being a feudal lord means watching real-life human beings- people who have families who love them- people who are maybe even friends- die because of some war that you want to engage in. It might even mean getting shot at yourself or even dying. I don't think it'll be anything like a video game.
User avatar
GoIllini
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat 05 Mar 2005, 04:00:00

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby born2respawn » Mon 29 Aug 2005, 22:55:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dagod1', 'A')ny other ideas, I would like to be a better than average king?

Do apparently very generous things periodically, like celebrate your birthday by giving them a day off and cake. Having your workers on your side would make it harder for subversive elements to over-throw you. Of course, the knights/mercernaries will help more, but you may as well have a feast with food that was going to rot anyway - cheaper than bullets.

You tend to feel more normal if you fear falling off your perch, and cling to it for dear life, than if somebody nails your feet to it. (Post-Soviet Lessons for a Post-American Century, Part III. Dmitry Orlov)
User avatar
born2respawn
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Britain

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby Liamj » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 00:24:02

So presuming you survive the crash of this over-centralised civilisation, you're planning to start up a centralised minicivilisation?
:roll:

You know when first rains come in your town? When frost comes? How to deliver a calf, bake bread without baking powder, purify water, preserve chestnuts?
If no, no, no.., then your 'estate', managed in ignorance by someone who plans, it seems, to do sweet f.a., will surely fail, and quickly.

Co-operate or perish.
User avatar
Liamj
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed 08 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: 145'2"E 37'46"S

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby cube » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 01:22:34

I'd rather be a nomadic warlord plundering helpless fiefdoms in search of booty. (booty as in treasure not ass) I'd model my mini army after the Mongols but instead of riding horses we'd use SUV's. (for once the all terrain capababilities of SUV's would be used). We'd search for gasoline, the most valueable commodity in a PO world.

Your defenses better be secured or else...
cube
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3909
Joined: Sat 12 Mar 2005, 04:00:00

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby Colorado-Valley » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 02:30:52

I've got a 120-acre ranch, but I'll probably subcontract my serf responsibilities out to Feudal Lords R Us.

Actually, I assume the government (corporations) will eventually seize all the arable farmland anyway. These people don't seem all that interested in preserving a middle class if they can help it.
User avatar
Colorado-Valley
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon 16 Aug 2004, 03:00:00

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby dagod1 » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 03:32:42

Lots of great ideas, thanks everyone.

learn to fire a weapon( I own several), buy a few bulletproof vests(Have several), and if you're really buying into a doomsday peak oil scenario, join the military.

I did all above except the military. I think the military is honorable but would rather go to paintball practice than be in the military.

I would really like to be a good helpful king that really really encourages others to joint us.

I like the team that roams the country side by SUV in search of gas.

I teach highschool so I think I do have some leadership skills. I don't think you need every single skill imagineable to become king, just a bunch or start out small and hsve group control, and discipline someone in public now and then.

Gas in Clinton IL 2.77

Rob
User avatar
dagod1
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun 21 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Central IL

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby max_power29 » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 11:59:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')hy is feudalism so popular, but tribalism gets the razz?

Is it because everyone likes to fancy himself the feudal lord, and never the serf?

Is it because having to get along with people in a tribal situation just seem too darn difficult?


:P


Feudalism is a Nash equilibrium. I prefer tribalism too, however anyone practicing tribalism will be dominated buy anyone that happens to decide to practice feudalism. you must play tit for tat, you will be destroyed by the feudalists. Once one tribe goes feudal, everyone else must compete by also become feudal. You may hold out for a while like the Celts for example, but eventually you will be assimilitaed or die. Google Nash equilibriums it really explains of lot of situations that are not optimal but prevail.
User avatar
max_power29
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Wed 23 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Orygun

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby max_power29 » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 12:00:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')hy is feudalism so popular, but tribalism gets the razz?

Is it because everyone likes to fancy himself the feudal lord, and never the serf?

Is it because having to get along with people in a tribal situation just seem too darn difficult?


:P


Feudalism is a Nash equilibrium. I prefer tribalism too, however anyone practicing tribalism will be dominated buy anyone that happens to decide to practice feudalism. you must play tit for tat, you will be destroyed by the feudalists. Once one tribe goes feudal, everyone else must compete by also becoming feudal. You may hold out for a while like the Celts for example, but eventually you will be assimilitated or die. Google Nash equilibriums it really explains well of lot of situations that are not optimal but prevail in the world. Human behavior is a bitch!
User avatar
max_power29
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Wed 23 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Orygun

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby GoIllini » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 12:17:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dagod1', 'L')ots of great ideas, thanks everyone.

learn to fire a weapon( I own several), buy a few bulletproof vests(Have several), and if you're really buying into a doomsday peak oil scenario, join the military.

I did all above except the military. I think the military is honorable but would rather go to paintball practice than be in the military.

I would really like to be a good helpful king that really really encourages others to joint us.

I like the team that roams the country side by SUV in search of gas.

I teach highschool so I think I do have some leadership skills. I don't think you need every single skill imagineable to become king, just a bunch or start out small and hsve group control, and discipline someone in public now and then.

Gas in Clinton IL 2.77

Rob


If you haven't been a member of the military and seen bullets, "Feudal Lordship" probably isn't for you. Go find yourself a nice community full of competent folks (IE: engineers, bike mechanics, construction workers), bring some skills to the table, and live out peak oil there. Besides, it'll probably be a much more civilized and happy existance than ANYTHING feudalism (including being at the top) could offer.

Heck, Clinton, IL might be a great place to survive peak oil as part of a community. I'm from the school of thought that we have thousands of years worth of recoverable uranium from freshwater and the ocean, and I figure that your nuclear reactor's going to be maintaining civilization for you guys for at least another 30-40 years. Maybe you guys will be able to help the rest of the world rebuild its energy infrastructure after the doom-and-gloom scenario finally plays itself out.

But real life is nothing like the video game. "Feudal Lords" will likely live very short lives that generally end in painful deaths from gunshot wounds.
User avatar
GoIllini
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat 05 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby bruss01 » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 12:35:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '
')Being pretty naive about war, myself, (maybe a little less naive about leading a bunch of folks without the comforts of civilization than about war, though), I would argue that real-life is going to be a heckuvalot scarier than a video game...

My suggestion: learn to fire a weapon, buy a few bulletproof vests, and if you're really buying into a doomsday peak oil scenario, join the military.



"Join the Military" ? Excuse me?!

Willingly submit to virtual slavery? Willingly join a group that will force you to act against the interests of your safety and longevity? Join a group that, when you decide you've had enough, or that you don't believe in what they're doing, or that other matters (such as taking care of your wife and family) have taken priority, will either put you in jail or kill you for saying "I quit"?

That is the most patently absurd thing I've ever heard.

I think what you intended to say was "learn combat skills" or "learn to fight". There are plenty of ways to do this, without selling yourself into slavery.
User avatar
bruss01
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed 06 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sacramento
Top

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby GoIllini » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 13:40:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bruss01', '"')Join the Military" ? Excuse me?!

Willingly submit to virtual slavery? Willingly join a group that will force you to act against the interests of your safety and longevity? Join a group that, when you decide you've had enough, or that you don't believe in what they're doing, or that other matters (such as taking care of your wife and family) have taken priority, will either put you in jail or kill you for saying "I quit"?

That is the most patently absurd thing I've ever heard.

I think what you intended to say was "learn combat skills" or "learn to fight". There are plenty of ways to do this, without selling yourself into slavery.


I would argue that one needs to get *combat experience*, not "combat skills". The best way to do that is in the military.

Of course, other options might be to become a mercenary or to work in Iraq, but the military is the first one that comes to mind.
User avatar
GoIllini
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat 05 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby strider3700 » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 15:56:29

The problem with becoming a feudal lord like everything else is it's really really hard to get started. Helping the starving masses seems like a good idea.

You're going to need something valuable to get started though. Land probably won't be enough. It will need to be good land, and you'll need to be able to house and feed these people until they get into the plant/tend/harvest cycle.

Remember to never show weakness or doubt, act like you know WTF you are doing and the vast majority of people will believe you know and will step into line. Those that don't however are likely to be a real problem and the odds of having one of them just put an axe in your back and then take your stuff is high enough to be worrysome.

Make sure you figure out who will oppose you and who will be loyal lapdogs real early and then use those that are loyal to you to put down the opposition.

Eventually if you have any value in the community you will be dealing with outsider attacks. Prep for them will be costly in terms of time and resources and will be a hard sell early on. Remember that missleading information isn't just an option it's pretty much a requirement to being a good leader. Manufactured enemies to get what you want works today and has in the past. I see no reason why it wouldn't work in the future.
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
strider3700
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2865
Joined: Sun 17 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Vancouver Island

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby bruss01 » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 18:14:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoIllini', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bruss01', '"')Join the Military" ? Excuse me?!

Willingly submit to virtual slavery? Willingly join a group that will force you to act against the interests of your safety and longevity? Join a group that, when you decide you've had enough, or that you don't believe in what they're doing, or that other matters (such as taking care of your wife and family) have taken priority, will either put you in jail or kill you for saying "I quit"?

That is the most patently absurd thing I've ever heard.

I think what you intended to say was "learn combat skills" or "learn to fight". There are plenty of ways to do this, without selling yourself into slavery.


I would argue that one needs to get *combat experience*, not "combat skills". The best way to do that is in the military.

Of course, other options might be to become a mercenary or to work in Iraq, but the military is the first one that comes to mind.


Ok, so I was mistaken about what you meant. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Having had (i.e. survived) combat experience will be an advantage when SHTF. The idea of putting yourself in a position of being shot or shot at or having grenades lobbed at you or dodging mortar fire (which might sound fun to an adolescent with delusions of invulnerability, no doubt exacerbated by video game playing) for the express purpose of getting "combat experience" is foolhardy.

On top of the risk inherent in facing actual combat (a person runs a substantial risk of being killed, maimed or disfigured) you would be giving up 4 years of being in control of your own life, 4 years that IMHO will be badly needed to prepare for Peak Oil. Knowing how to fight will be important, yes, but more important than knowing how to till soil, milk cows, stoke a forge, grind wheat, brew biodiesel, and build community? And who's to say it's just 4 years? At the rate things are going, they keep extending peoples tours just to keep the ranks from depleting. It could be 5, 6, 7 or God knows how many years they want to keep this up. Once you've signed on, it's out of your hands. Once you give up control of your life, you can have one hell of a time getting it back.

My suggestion would be, instead of selling yourself into slavery, get a decent job, get and/or stay out of debt, learn some skills, lay in some emergency provisions, and secure some land or make an alliance with someone who is already a landowner. If you really feel the need to learn combat skills, anything short of tank-driving lessons you can get in civillian training. Check out FrontSight near Las Vegas, for instance. They have some excellent programs of instruction.

Joining the army is like taking a minimum wage job with lousy working conditions, an a$$hole for a boss and crappy benefits where you wear a bullseye all day. To me, it would be a last ditch effort to keep from living under a bridge. Hell, even the bridge sounds better.
Last edited by bruss01 on Tue 30 Aug 2005, 18:18:20, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bruss01
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed 06 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sacramento
Top

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby richardmmm » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 18:16:53

the local and federal government is going to be a bit of an obstacle in this plan.

i think the bushies and their friends figured that out a long while ago and came to the genius idea that rather than becoming fedual landlords they'd simply take over the government instead. that way they could be feudal landlords and eliminate the nusiance of government at the sametime.

that's probably the best plan, but sadly we've been pipped to the post.

i guess we could start up a fight club situation, but i think the patriot act has already got that one covered......looks like they thought of that one too.........damn..........that Brad Pitt movie must have tipped them off.............

so alas it looks like sefdom after all.........

did you prefer turnips or cabbage for breakfast.........

the most interesting thing about government is that something initially small and insignificant and organised to protect the villagers and farms from roaming warlords has turned into a total parasite, worse than the warlords themselves..........

i think we were better off in the robber baron era. at least those who rose to power had a semblance of brains and efficiency and ran corporations which produced something of value rather than being hollow political dishonesty machines.

i think being a corporate robber baron would be the best bet, but those damn anti trust laws and that petty minded SEC make life so difficult these days.
User avatar
richardmmm
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat 20 Aug 2005, 03:00:00

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby GoIllini » Tue 30 Aug 2005, 19:48:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')k, so I was mistaken about what you meant. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Having had (i.e. survived) combat experience will be an advantage when SHTF. The idea of putting yourself in a position of being shot or shot at or having grenades lobbed at you or dodging mortar fire (which might sound fun to an adolescent with delusions of invulnerability, no doubt exacerbated by video game playing) for the express purpose of getting "combat experience" is foolhardy.

On top of the risk inherent in facing actual combat (a person runs a substantial risk of being killed, maimed or disfigured) you would be giving up 4 years of being in control of your own life, 4 years that IMHO will be badly needed to prepare for Peak Oil. Knowing how to fight will be important, yes, but more important than knowing how to till soil, milk cows, stoke a forge, grind wheat, brew biodiesel, and build community? And who's to say it's just 4 years? At the rate things are going, they keep extending peoples tours just to keep the ranks from depleting. It could be 5, 6, 7 or God knows how many years they want to keep this up. Once you've signed on, it's out of your hands. Once you give up control of your life, you can have one hell of a time getting it back.

My suggestion would be, instead of selling yourself into slavery, get a decent job, get and/or stay out of debt, learn some skills, lay in some emergency provisions, and secure some land or make an alliance with someone who is already a landowner. If you really feel the need to learn combat skills, anything short of tank-driving lessons you can get in civillian training. Check out FrontSight near Las Vegas, for instance. They have some excellent programs of instruction.

Joining the army is like taking a minimum wage job with lousy working conditions, an a$$hole for a boss and crappy benefits where you wear a bullseye all day. To me, it would be a last ditch effort to keep from living under a bridge. Hell, even the bridge sounds better.


Thanks for making my point (see earlier posts). This is real life! It is NOT a video game. Getting shot at means that you really could get killed.

If this is something you're interested in doing, however, I'd suggest getting a two or three battle head-start on what'll likely be dozens of battles. As a "feudal lord", you'll be expected to lead by example and place yourself on the front line.

Rather than getting shot at, I know a whole bunch of truly brilliant engineers from college, and a whole bunch of other people that have had experience outdoors with me. I'm planning on getting together with them, finding a nice, remote plot of land, and living out the whole Peak Oil frenzy in relative safety for the 20-30 years it'll take till it's safe enough to rebuild if the doom-and-gloom scenario hits.

Why become a "Feudal Lord" if you can have something so much better? Heck, why even bother thinking about becoming a feudal lord unless you've actually had combat experience (No; Doom, Quake, or whatever FPS is out these days doesn't count.)
User avatar
GoIllini
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat 05 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby pup55 » Wed 31 Aug 2005, 14:50:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '#')1 begin buy getting starving people to work you fields for food.


Problem: Who died and made you King? What keeps a few of your farmhands from hanging you and using you for compost, and taking over the farm for themselves?

Why should they be loyal to you?
User avatar
pup55
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5249
Joined: Wed 26 May 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: How to become a feudal lord!!

Unread postby dagod1 » Wed 31 Aug 2005, 15:34:14

How about instead of becoming a feudal lord maybe becoming a great leader or good king, ya know feeding the hungry.

Are you guys watching the looting going on, this is what we can expect in major cities from thugs. I hope you can handle that, they will do the same to your house as a group. The will bust in and take what they want.
Trust me it will happen. These types won't last long and will hopefully die of starvation. And I am not talking about people stealing food.
ROb
User avatar
dagod1
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun 21 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Central IL

Next

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron