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Peak Oil Feeling Cycle: Denial, Anger, Fear, Depression (mer

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: Nothing is easier than giving up.

Unread postby LeonDion » Mon 08 Aug 2005, 14:50:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Liamj', 'C')hrist, people have been slouching around for decades going, "whats the point of it all, theres no meaning..", largely cos cheap energy and social disintegration had made them redundant and alienated. Now we've all GOT to pull together just to keep the stone age at bay, and people are slouching around going, "its too hard, too late, we're not meant to survive, blah blah, wah wah"!
We've all spent years as virtual hero's via hollywood, now we've got a chance at the real thing and.. "its too hard"!!!? Damn right it'll be hard, hopefully even hard enough to wake us up to life.


Amen!

We don't know how this is all going to pan out. It's scary when you listen to the "what was the population before cheap oil" argument. But I doubt that it will be all that simple. At least that it won't be uniformly bad across the globe.

If it's any consolation, you here on the Internet, with computers, are most likely members of the richest 10% of humanity. The oil crash is going to affect those dependent upon cheap oil more than those who use almost no oil. But it's still going to suck much much worse for the developing nations; those who are jumping on the bandwagon that the developed world built.

I look at a place like China and think: Man, if you guys only held onto the traditional ways for a little longer. If you only resisted modernity. Now, they're tied to oil-based agriculture, as bad as the western nations. With less land available per person, no less. How bad is the crash going to be for them!?

Before I heard about P.O., I was up in arms already over the way the political situation in the USA has degraded SO MUCH. When I first heard about P.O., one of my first reactions was thank God! Finally people will find a reason to be shaken from their sleep, and might just get off their asses and do something!

Consider the amount of waste that occurs. The massive amounts of energy and effort going into producing useless crap which only functions to alienate ourselves from one another, and suck up all our time. Think of the millions of hours - nay billions, spent on Internet porn, to name just one example.

Liamj was right on target with that last post!
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Re: yes it's depressing, yes we need to prepare....

Unread postby NEOPO » Wed 17 Aug 2005, 01:18:44

bravo!!! bravo!! :)

to quote some of todays finest rappers "I aint goin out like that yo" but I have a funny feeling that alot of people will have to go "out like that" yo...

Yeah we arent doomers by a long shot but it is fun to play the role 8)

I am sure that once the so called "anti doomers" get a good shot of PO to the brain that they will be the ones looking like true doomers.

"what will we do!?!?!?"
"we are not prepared!?!?!?"
"the sky is falling?!?!?"
"Theres no toilet paper?!?!?!" :o

Unable to imagine a life of hard work and the lack of an automobile they will recess into childish behavior patterns, paranoid, suicidal and depraved most will die of starvation alone asleep in the fetal position :o
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Re: Nothing is easier than giving up.

Unread postby seldom_seen » Wed 17 Aug 2005, 01:31:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Liamj', 'N')ow we've all GOT to pull together just to keep the stone age at bay...

That is so insensitive to cavemen everywhere!
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Re: Nothing is easier than giving up.

Unread postby wildsparrow » Wed 17 Aug 2005, 02:38:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Liamj', 'N')ow we've all GOT to pull together just to keep the stone age at bay...

That is so insensitive to cavemen everywhere!


Actually last night I got out my Stone Age cook book and thought, the food doesn't sound that bad really...
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Re: yes it's depressing, yes we need to prepare....

Unread postby savethehumans » Wed 17 Aug 2005, 03:16:14

But we can't be like the Flintstones! There's no brontosauri left to make brontosaurus burgers out of! :lol:

How about a nice soy burger instead? :roll:
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Re: yes it's depressing, yes we need to prepare....

Unread postby wildsparrow » Wed 17 Aug 2005, 05:10:03

LOL at the Flintstones reference.

I was serious though! I do have a Stone-Age cookbook!
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Re: yes it's depressing, yes we need to prepare....

Unread postby whiteknight » Wed 17 Aug 2005, 08:48:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wildsparrow', 'I') was serious though! I do have a Stone-Age cookbook!


Is it all cave paintings on animal skins showing how to kill the beasts with sharpened sticks, cut them up with flint knives and then roast them over a fire tearing bits off with your fingers?
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Re: yes it's depressing, yes we need to prepare....

Unread postby wildsparrow » Sun 21 Aug 2005, 22:34:49

No, it has recipes such as fish soup, laverbread, boiled samphire, carragheen sweet mousse, roast goose, cutlets of wild boar etc. It all sounds surprisingly civilised, if meat-heavy, as it was obviously before proper agriculture.
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Re: yes it's depressing, yes we need to prepare....

Unread postby GrizzAdams » Mon 22 Aug 2005, 04:17:31

My family and I are preparing for the "Big Rollover," by building an Earth Sheltered Home. We have done a bit of research on it, and feel it is the best option for shelter in our midwestern US climate. With thick masonry walls and many feet of earth for insulation, thermal inertia is maximized, and when accompanied with the passive solar designs, there is relatively almost no dependacy for other means of climate control.
The main problem with these structures, is that it is expensive to build, since excavation and thick masonry walls are required. So it is in my best interests to lite a fire under my ass, and get moving on the construction, since the cost of buildings materials and such is rising ever faster. I do not wish to stand at the beach and watch the tsunami come ashore.

On a finer note, i advise people to check out some pictures of some Earth Sheltered Homes. I personally think they are very lovely, especially to look at.
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Peak Oil Feeling Cycle: Denial, Anger, Fear, Depression (mer

Unread postby Shepherd » Sun 04 Sep 2005, 06:59:56

The Peak Oil Feeling Cycle—Denial, Anger, Fear, Depression, Acceptance
By Shepherd Bliss, sb3@pon.net

A Peak Oil Feeling Cycle seems to occur as one learns about the globe’s dwindling supply of petroleum. It can go something like the following: denial, anger, fear, depression, and acceptance. One’s feelings as they learn about the Black Gold’s ongoing descent do not necessarily occur in this order, nor does everyone go through all these stages. Upon first hearing the scientific evidence that we are in the twilight of the Oil Age, some people accept it immediately. But most people seem to go through a process that can take months, including going back and forth between various feelings, even on the same day.

When I talk about Peak Oil with my college students in Hawai’i and friends I get different responses. Some still have not heard that we are at or nearing the half-way point of our Earth’s limited petroleum supply, after which their will be a gradual decline. So they reply with a range of responses from curiosity to blank stares. Some change the subject to something more pleasant or exciting. Others argue back. After listening intently, some seem to understand.

By reflecting on my own Peak Oil awareness process and that of my students, friends, and readers as they engage information about oil depletion, I want to describe what I call the Peak Oil Feeling Cycle. My attempt here is to go beneath the important scientific, political, economic, and social aspects of Peak Oil to consider some of its human dimensions.

Rather than use the word “feeling,” I thought about “awareness,” but I think “feeling” is more accurate. Rather than “cycle” I originally used “curve,” connecting the term to the bell-shaped curve that came to be called Hubbert’s Peak and to the more familiar term learning curve. I decided upon cycle because it implies something ongoing and because it can include occurring and recurring. It suggests that feelings are circular, like a wheel, rather than linear. Feelings can get stuck and stop a flow, or they can evolve, especially when expressed. Cycle is also a biological and electrical term and can evoke bicycles, which are part of the solution, once one gets to acceptance.

“There is a Peak Oil learning curve,” author Richard Heinberg observed. He was speaking to over 200 people this summer near his home in Sonoma County, Northern California, at a talk organized by Solar Sebastopol. His comment stimulated me to realize that there is also a Peak Oil Feeling Cycle.

Then I recalled the work of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, M.D., in her classic 1969 book “On Death and Dying.” From her clinical work she was able to describe the usual stages of dealing with death—denial, anger, bargaining, fear, depression, acceptance. Peak Oil is a process, rather than an event. It is a kind of dying—of the Oil Age, after which we will have another age. Energy has evolved from wood, to coal, and now to oil. It is still unclear what blend will provide energy for the future, though it is clear that it will not be cheap oil nor as abundant or effective.

I seek ways to describe the natural process of oil depletion to a growing number of people in words that are understandable. The early responders— like canaries in a coal mine—already sense what is happening. They give voice to the crises that will soon happen as industrial society runs out of its main energizing, non-renewable fossil fuel. For those who try to talk to friends and family about what they’ve learned about oil’s twilight, it is tempting to present scientific facts and offer analyses of its potential consequences. This doesn’t always work to communicate information in a way that people can integrate.

When I first heard about Peak Oil, I thought it was just another Y2K false threat. So I was doubtful and skeptical. I was in the first stage of denial. This is the stage at which some people laugh at others and even try to belittle and ridicule them. Others report that they are “bored.” True, the Peak Oil news is initially not very exciting or distracting, which is most of what the current media presents, rather than inform us. People in deep denial just want you to shut up, so that Peak Oil will go away.

I first read Heinberg’s book “The Party’s Over” in early 2004. Then I watched the documentary “The End of Suburbia” that summer at New College of California, where Heinberg teaches. He appears in the film, along with Kunstler, Simmons, and other Peak Oil theorists. The book and the film together finally stimulated Peak Oil to appear on my radar screen.

But I still didn’t give Peak Oil much attention. Then some government officials began advocating the building of a new highway through the forest where I live in Hawai’i. Peak Oil suddenly became a relevant reality to me. Why build such a highway with all its environmental degradation if our amount of gasoline and use of cars will decline?

A member of our road opposition neighborhood group sent me an excerpt from James Howard Kunstler’s book “The Long Emergency” that appeared in the magazine “Rolling Stone.” Peak Oil finally made sense to me, because I could relate it to my own situation of fighting a road through the forest. I began to feel some anger, especially at greedy Big Oil, whose profits continue to soar to record heights. I also resented Americans for our over-consumption of a limited, non-renewable resource. I expressed my anger at public meetings to discuss the road building and in articles in the Hawai’i Island Journal. Others have described their anger as growing into rage and even wrath. Anger has merit and is certainly appropriate in the face of Peak Oil. Anger’s fire can activate, but it is not sufficient for the long-term.

As I studied Peak Oil more, I got frightened and felt a growing fear. After all, I had made some careful five and ten year plans, which did not take oil depletion into account. “Peak Oil scares me and I feel vulnerable,” a Big Island resident confided to me. I had been planning to stay in Hawai’i, but the islands import most of our food and goods and our economy is dependent upon tourism. Fear can create a sense of helplessness. Transportation breakdowns in Hawai’I lead quickly to shortages in stores. So how would my friends and I get enough food in these remote islands, I worried. If a crisis were to hit Hawai’ as devastating as Katrina, would we react like New Orleans? I dwelt in Peak Oil fear for a few months—not an enjoyable feeling, nor an activating one. In fact, it was rather painful and demobilizing.

Fear can grow into hysteria and panic. I’ve noticed this happening since Hurricane Katrina hit. Katrina has awakened an increasing number of people to Peak Oil issues; it frightens many that what we see happening in New Orleans may happen in other urban areas. Indeed, it may. But when fear escalates into panic or hysteria, rather than evolving into right action, one’s thinking and doing can be clouded. The feeling of desperation is more likely to de-mobilize or lead to ineffective action than it is to produce
effective activity. Some have the urge to get a gun to defend themselves, rather than plant a garden to provide for themselves and others. Crises can bring out the worst in people, as we see in New Orleans, but they can also bring out the best, as we saw in New York City after Sept. 11, 2001.

Depression followed fear for me, especially as I thought about what my friends, others, and I would lose. At times this depression has been accompanied by confusion regarding what to do. I enjoy traveling, which I will not be able to do as much of as oil peaks. More serious consequences include the reduction of the amount of and options for food. As one reads more about Peak Oil, it is easy to get sad and do what is called “anticipatory grief.” I must admit to sometimes slipping back in my cycle into feeling despair.

The main visible place that we currently feel Peak Oil unfolding publicly is when we fill our cars with gasoline at rising prices, which angers many people. Such symptoms of the underlying problem will increase, bring more discomfort, and with it the mourning for the life of relative abundance that once existed. It is easy to get despondent over the emerging oil shortage.

I finally began to talk more about Peak Oil with friends and others. This broke my isolation. I moved into an acceptance of the inevitability of the twilight of the Oil Age. I began to feel better. Things would surely change without petroleum to fuel industrial society, but they might even eventually get better. In fact, I have come to see Peak Oil as not only a threat but as potentially an opportunity. It could help wake us up to the damage that oil-based industrialism does to the Earth.

As one talks to individuals or groups about oil descent and its economic, political, and social consequences, it is helpful to understand where one’s listeners are coming from: How much do they already know? Where does their information come from? Have they merely been reading the mainstream media with its focus on rising gasoline prices as the problem, or have they ventured into the authors mentioned above and others trying to connect the energy dots and provide analysis and context, including various Peak Oil websites? How do they feel about what they are learning?

The importance of getting to the acceptance of Peak Oil as a reality is that it can lead to a deeper study of the subject and being better informed. This can help guide connecting to others and taking direct action. Getting to this stage sooner will enable us to plan better for our personal futures and those of our families and friends.

Wherever you might be in your own personal cycle, I appreciate the drive you’ve taken with me by reading this article. I’m using my two-wheeler more these days than I used to, like when I was a boy. I don’t get as far as I did on my four-wheeler, but it gives me a better opportunity to see the flowers and other things along the way and do less damage to them and myself.
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Re: Peak Oil Feeling Cycle: Denial, Anger, Fear, Depression.

Unread postby Jack » Sun 04 Sep 2005, 09:11:07

My compliments on a thoughtful and well written post!

Welcome to Peak Oil.
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Re: Peak Oil Feeling Cycle: Denial, Anger, Fear, Depression.

Unread postby aldente » Sun 04 Sep 2005, 13:03:26

Jay Hanson lives on the Big Island but I fear he is a sort of "advanced" mental stage and probably will not be a good source if you wanted to touch base with him (he lists his phone nr. in one of the many articles of his dieoff website, don't ask me which).

My theorie goes that he choose Hawaii since it is one of the most remote places on this planet which means less radioactive fallout in case of the exchange of nuclear weapons. Remember the 80's and how prevalent the danger of nuclear war was back then? Eventhough the Cold War has ended in the 90's the weapons are still around and as you point out in your thread so accurately quote: Fear can grow into hysteria and panic. Who says that the eonomic and political systems are not prone to irrational action? After all they are the reflection of an accumulation of human interests and hence its imperfections and irrationalities.

What made Jay Hanson to abandon this dieoff site? (he handed it over to someone else who keeps the dormant site up). What was the final conclusion that he came to?

I think in the short (and as the unfortuenate result long) run nuclear war is
the ultimate danger that we are facing. It can be triggered under circumstances when political and economic systems are facing extrem stress and pressure and if Peak Oil will not do exactley that then what?

My conclusion: Steer your mind into a spiritual direction where FEAR is not existent or at least make it your objective to find such a place. If a critical mass of human minds are free of fear the chances of irrational behaviour to take over diminishes.

I often times stated that the fear of our own mortality is the root of all other fears. And this is not to "think" about ones own death, but to actually experience it. To work on overcomming this fear means to enter a spiritual path (I am not suggesting to subscribe to pre-manufactured religious systems).
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Re: Peak Oil Feeling Cycle: Denial, Anger, Fear, Depression.

Unread postby Guest » Sun 04 Sep 2005, 14:39:30

I like the link to "On Death and Dying." Facing the concept of Peak Oil does bring with it a real sense of loss which must be dealt with. Through movies we all know how the future should look (Star Trek) and plan personally for a comfortable retirement (with social security and retirement savings intact). While these are only images of a possible future they seem more solid than that, and losing confidence in this safe familiar future is experienced as loss...

Negotiation... "If I buy a hybrid car life will go on as it always has" is another strategy that will be commonly used when facing PO, as will denial and anger...

I think that personally I skipped denial (peak oil makes sense from a biology background, and it explains world events better than the public explainations) and am left with a feeling of helplessness and anxiety. I think that that is natural when an individual is faced with subjects and events too big to control on a personal level.

Intellectually I am trying to maintain acceptance which involves accepting an idea of the future with less prosperity and security. The "cost" of this is feeling poor and insecure now, even when the economy and my new career are humming along. Another "cost" is seeing the world differently than friends and family... bringing a feeling of isolation.

I expect religion (Buddhism as I understand it, for me) will be very important in keeping perspective through this process.
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Re: Peak Oil Feeling Cycle: Denial, Anger, Fear, Depression.

Unread postby Barbara » Sun 04 Sep 2005, 16:47:37

He forgot the last feeling after "acceptance".
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Re: Peak Oil Feeling Cycle: Denial, Anger, Fear, Depression.

Unread postby DantesPeak » Sun 04 Sep 2005, 17:21:29

The MSM quoted surveys that 72% of Americans think that oil and gasoline companies are price gouging (denial and anger). If our national leaders focus on price issues like this, and not the underlying fundementals, accpetance of PO will take much longer.

Good post Shepherd.
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Just a little blue / depressed about PO

Unread postby Depleted » Tue 06 Sep 2005, 22:07:45

I'm feeling a little blue about all of this. I'm not new to Peak Oil, I've surfs and read often. I'm just having trouble reconciling what my fiance and I want to do with our lives(we both just graduated last May), and what we will be able to do given the outlook over the next 40-60 years.

For instance, we're in debt up to our eyeballs from school and related expenses and we're getting married next March so every extra dollar is going to wedding expenses. I'm not a doomer, I think the bottom will gradually fall out. But realistically, I'm starting grad school next fall and I project it will be at least 3-4 years before we are 100% debt free if not longer. Add to that the whole shabang about kids and house, and investing to retire and my head is just swimming.

My fiance does not exactly share my PO sentiments. It's making me a little nervous because she understands what's going on, but she's seems so scared about it she refuses to talk about anything PO related.

I don't quite know what to do. We seem so ill equiped to deal with things (comepared to a few around here). I'm just trying to live one day at a time, and gradually change our lifestyle to suite what our society may well look like down the road. I'm nto to loony am I?
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Re: Just a little blue

Unread postby dolphinlady » Tue 06 Sep 2005, 22:39:50

Is there any way you can downsize your wedding?? You could say you want a simpler, more intimate wedding, to cut down on the expenses??
I feel for you about her not wanting to listen or talk about it. Most people I've tried to tell don't want to hear about it. Maybe she thinks if she doesn't talk about it, it won't really happen. It sures can take awhile to adjust. Matt Savinar in his book says it seems that most people experience a "post peak oil depression" of 6 weeks to 6 months. Well, you have the forums here to connect with people...Good luck....
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Re: Just a little blue

Unread postby kaon12 » Tue 06 Sep 2005, 23:28:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Depleted', 'I') don't quite know what to do. We seem so ill equiped to deal with things (comepared to a few around here). I'm just trying to live one day at a time, and gradually change our lifestyle to suite what our society may well look like down the road. I'm nto to loony am I?

You're not a loon - but you might be looked upon that way. I make $160K per year and live debt free, but people making a quarter of what I make live in bigger houses, drive bigger cars, take bigger vacations, putting another level on their house, etc. I look at these people, knowing full well that they are buying things that they cannot afford, using home equity from the ever growing debt bubble.

But, just the same, they look at me and think I'm crazy. I have been told countless times that your wealth is not just what you have, but what you have and everything that you can borrow. As bizarro as that sounds to people like you and I, that appears to be the norm these days.

At any rate, I got my wife to buy in with a little bribery. I explained to her why it makes sense to be debt free, and I put our family on a small budget while making double and triple payments on everything, the house, the cars, etc. Even at my salary, it took 5 years, but now it's all done. As a reward, when the house was finished paying, I bought the wife a new wedding ring and increased the budget.

Who knows if this will work for you, but maybe it will help. Live on a budget, lose the credit cards, buy only what you can afford, and you'll be happier later! You might even have a little cash on hand to scoop up those houses which will crash in price when the debt bubble bursts! :)
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Re: Just a little blue

Unread postby knoppix2004 » Mon 12 Sep 2005, 19:55:58

Edited Kindly, please seek help.
Last edited by knoppix2004 on Wed 14 Sep 2005, 23:14:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Just a little blue

Unread postby markam » Mon 12 Sep 2005, 20:56:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')merica has over 3 trillion barrels of oil, “so called unconventional oil”. Shale Oil, Tar Sand, and there are many other types.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'o')ur grand children will be living with more wealth and energy then we do.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ousing mark is booming, why not invest in it?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eak Oil is not a huge problem


I do hope that you are being sarcastic.
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