[Chocky]

The Amish will be fine if they can hold onto what they have, that's the difficult part.

[Pops]

I only have 2 months experience with the Amish.
If there is one group that will feel less pain than another, I believe it is the Amish, no matter if there is a steep or gentle decline. The reason is simple; they are frugal, they work hard and know how to make do.

It's not so much that they (at least this community) don't use fossil fuels because they do. The farm I bought was owned by an Amish family -
The well used an air pump run off a diesel compressor. The lights used propane or Coleman fuel.
The washer ran off a gas engine. The refrigerator was propane from an RV.

In fact I was just talking to a fellow from down the road this morning who had come by looking for a nail gun he thought might have been left here when the community had re-roofed the house, we couldn't find it so he got back in the van (driven by an "English") and went to look at another neighbor's house.

Anyway, my point is that all of those solutions weren"t easy; they were hard. They took ingenuity and determination. Nothing goes to waste; everything is useful. Patrick may be right that their farming methods may not be the most efficient possible theoretically, but we aren"t talking about theory and as for sustainability they are light years ahead of "Modern" practice.

And again with the pillaging hordes if it comes to that, it won"t matter if you are Rambo or Bambi. It seems to me the whole MZB argument is either an excuse to do nothing or an excuse to buy another weapon.

[Kingcoal]

These days, a number of Amish supplement their incomes with roadside stands selling flowers, beef jerky (the best beef jerkey I've ever had I might add) and tours of their houses. Some put modern plastic siding on their houses, etc. I haven't seen any with electricity yet.

Regarding their farming efficiency, I'll agree that they spend a lot more of their time than a hydrocarbon farmer. They work sunrise to sunset and arn't bulging at the waist like me and my fellow cubicle rats. But they don't use fertilizers except for the natural kind and definitely don't use tractors. They are a very interesting look into our ancestors who built this country.

All the food I've bought from the Amish, from pies to icecream, was absolutely delicious! Those natural ingredients make a big difference.

[RIPSmithianEconomics]

It's a sad image- US soldiers shoving the Amish off their land.

[Peepers]

If you can't learn to farm on your own quickly enough (especially without modern, oil-consuming farm machinery and oil-based fertilizers), is the next best thing to move in or near a region where Amish and Menonites are in great abundance? East and south of the Greater Cleveland-Akron-Canton areas, there are relatively large populations of Amish and Menonites, with many large farms, plus farmers markets where they sell their agricultural products (and have lots of great restaurants!).

To me, this sounds like a logical argument, as long as so many people don't move to the area that it wipes out the farmland or the new population doesn't outstrips the ability of the Amish and Menonites to feed that many people. Perhaps this should just be kept as our little secret here in Northeast Ohio (as well as in other, similar places). Therefore, unless you already live here, forget you ever read this!

Perhaps it would be better if we just learned some things from the Amish and Menonites and shared their wealth of know-how.

[MaterialExcess]

You should learn to farm or produce something you can trade to the Amish and Menonites. If you can trade something of value in return, you can probably get what you need to survive from them. In a SHTF scenario these areas could be overun with other people like you though. The Amish and Menonites are hardly secret enough if things get really bad.

[Pops]

As someone said, never horse trade with the Amishman, he’ll win every time.

Unless you speak German you might as well be a foreigner – since to those folks you are.

Better go to plans B.

[mommy22]

Peepers, I, too live just north of the Amish Mennonite Communities in NEOhio. In fact, most stores still have places in the back of parking lots for the Amish to park their buggies! When you drive through their areas, inevitably you see a farmer pulling a horse pulled plow (manually!). And yes, there are loads of farm stands (on every corner, it seems) where farmers (Amish and non) sell their produce. The craziness is that dayd by day, more new 200-300 house McMansion developments are going up and that means fewer and fewer places to grow food. I feel fortunate...I can walk to town, and bike if need be, but these allotments are going further and further out of town, and I feel really sorry for folks who won't be able to because they need to have an ever bigger house to live in.
Well, I have always marveled (and taken notes) at the Amish ways. I can make a pretty good pie!

[OldSprocket]

Before moving to Maine I looked at land in other places including N.E. Ohio, specifically "Amish country". We often speak of the Amish or Mennonites as if they were homogeneous, but there are many divergent belief systems that all look similar to us computer users.

I have had a couple of interactions with "Plain" people who emphasize that their way of life is centered around Jesus Christ. Anyone who tries to live in an Amish or Mennonite area but does not adhere to their belief system is only an impostor. Different groups will shun or include an impostor depending on their beliefs.

I know that other areas have far different Amish groups, some of which are more tolerant of modern ideas and others less tolerant. Some will welcome earnest neighbors, others will include only people who adhere to a local interpretation of the Bible.

I think living among Plain people would have several advantages. Just look carefully at how a community defines itself; It may be different than how outsiders define it.

[killJOY]

Gay Amish? Probably not.

Whenever I drive from Maine to Ohio to visit family, I always stop in Kidron to get goods from Lehman's hardware and to check out the farms, the auctions, etc.

The life there is so beautiful I could turn straight and Christian and join.


Nah.

So I come back home and live the spare, simple life on this little postage stamp of soil here in Maine.

[Daculling]

Unfortually, the Amish will be destroyed. The hords will bring guns. They won't understand the ways that allowed the Amish to survive. Damn good those Amish though, built my fathers barn for half the price and 1/10 the time. Makes me sad...

[Peepers]

We may be imposters to them, but there is interaction. When I lived in Geauga County, Ohio, I often saw Amish workers being brought in vans to build McMansions. Little did they realize they were bringing the urban sprawl closer to where it would eventually start squeezing them out. But the ones I spoke with appreciated the work and the decent pay.

That being said, I do think there's opportunities for interaction, such as learning petroluem-free ways of farming. They are entrepenuers and aren't afraid of making a buck. I only hope us oil addicts will have enough left in our pockets to afford their knowledge.

[mommy22]

Yes, one doesn't have to turn Amish to learn their ways. They have never had daily use of modern technology. However, they do have Mennonite friends or relatives who drive them around, and there is a telephone on the road if needed (not in the home). And I can vouch that they use modern medical facilities, and stay in hospitals, etc... so while they don't use electricity in their home lives, it doesn't mean that their lives wouldn't change also when PO does come. Our family has done several tours through an Amish farm/home...it's very interesting to learn about their community and old ways,etc... ideas that we can fall back on and use if need be.

[Pops]

I agree there are things to learn from the Amish but I don’t think the most important ones have been mentioned.

One thing lots of folks are talking about on the board is community, that is the Amish’s greatest asset I think; whether building a barn or helping someone move there are dozens of people to help. How to duplicate that, of course, is the problem

The other is the value of hard work and there is no great secret there.

[killJOY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ne thing lots of folks are talking about on the board is community, that is the Amish’s greatest asset I think; whether building a barn or helping someone move there are dozens of people to help. How to duplicate that, of course, is the problem

The other is the value of hard work and there is no great secret there.

[skyemoor]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daculling', 'U')nfortually, the Amish will be destroyed. The hords will bring guns.

[Pops]

One advantage in many Amish communities is many work for themselves or someone else in the community. When it is time to re-roof someone’s house, if the job can’t be completed on Saturday and the weather is threatening many are able to come back on Monday. At some point in the future – at least in the country more folks may have that ‘luxury’ as well.

As far as brigands go, who are they more a danger too, the practiced non-resister, the fantasizing Rambo, or the totally oblivious?

[skyemoor]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'A')s far as brigands go, who are they more a danger too, the practiced non-resister, the fantasizing Rambo, or the totally oblivious?