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Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in China

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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 26 Jan 2025, 19:11:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '
')The population of these nations did not make the decisions that led to the current state of affairs. These decisions were made for them by unelected policy makers in corporations, NGOs, and think tanks, all headed by components of a wealthy aristocracy.

Call it sin of cowardy.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onsider the possibility that the nukes exist to be used by governments on their own populations, or even the world itself, if the masses revolt against the global aristocracy that rules them. The aristocracy acts rationally, and mutually-assured destruction is irrational and does not coincide with their interests.

This would be not survivable for aristocracy. Universal murder of its members by surviving 5-50% would be the only possible outcome. So it is irrational.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')A universally armed population would do a lot to slow this. reconstruction of oppressive system - EU

Yes - slow it but not stop it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f the planet is dead, there will be no freedom. It will be back to spending all time/resources trying to achieve basic survival, a massive step down from the relatively free existence enjoyed by subsistence hunter-gatherers on what was once a lush and biodiverse planet.

At least they will be free to starve. For many still a better deal than they have now.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')reedom for all(or at least the vast majority) was the default condition for humanity prior to civilization and written law.

Yes but at these times global population was in range of 10-50 millions I have mentioned before

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')rmaments are the great equalizer. Those more stronger and more anarchic anarchists better not fear death, dismemberment, or loss of their loved ones, because that will always be an inevitable outcome of trying to conquer other armed people. A risk vs reward calculation comes into play which mediates their behavior, a least if they're intelligent or rational. In game theory, mutually beneficial cooperation tends to yield the best outcomes for both parties involved.

They will form gangs and challenge weaker anarchists with their guns.
That is how all governments are forming - out of packs of bandits and complacency of peace loving or weaker people.
Then taxes are introduced.

So what you say is possible but only with very small population of no more than say ~50 millions of people living in small packs distributed across habitable land.
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby theluckycountry » Sun 26 Jan 2025, 19:13:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', ' ')He works 60+ hours a week, and if he quits his job out of frustration, he will go to jail for being unable to meet the other obligations the court forced on him, and his career as an engineer will be over if he ever gets an arrest on his record.


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We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby The_Toecutter » Mon 27 Jan 2025, 02:23:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')Call it sin of cowardy.


It comes down to probable futility. Standing up to this aristocracy requires that you have thousands of armed people ready to act with you in a common cause, or all that will result is certain imprisonment/death and you will achieve nothing. This aristocracy spies on everything everyone does in order to assure that this is nearly impossible to do.

Luigi Mangione is the exception, and not the rule, of a lone person killing a member of the ruling class and at least sparking national discussion.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')This would be not survivable for aristocracy. Universal murder of its members by surviving 5-50% would be the only possible outcome. So it is irrational.


It's very rational when said aristocracy has had its taxpayer base fund for itself the construction of underground bunkers and food storage. Once AI technology becomes good enough to do away with employees, this aristocracy could wipe out 99% of the population and be just fine. In fact, AI tech that is why policy decisions are geared towards disincentivising reproduction among the native white populations of 1st world countries. They see us as useless eaters, stealing "their" resources, and want to assure there don't exist enough people to fight them if/when the time comes.
Last edited by The_Toecutter on Mon 27 Jan 2025, 02:29:11, edited 1 time in total.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby The_Toecutter » Mon 27 Jan 2025, 02:27:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')
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I don't remember the exact reason why, but he tried to get a passport to leave the USA and was denied. These legal obligations may be the reason.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 27 Jan 2025, 05:17:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '
')It comes down to probable futility. Standing up to this aristocracy requires that you have thousands of armed people ready to act with you in a common cause, or all that will result is certain imprisonment/death and you will achieve nothing. This aristocracy spies on everything everyone does in order to assure that this is nearly impossible to do.

Cowardy begins with a permit to form said aristocracy.
Further cowardy is allowing it to exist and final cowardy is allowing to form another aristocracy once existing one is unseated and killed - what happens every few hundreds of years in most of societies.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's very rational when said aristocracy has had its taxpayer base fund for itself the construction of underground bunkers and food storage. Once AI technology becomes good enough to do away with employees, this aristocracy could wipe out 99% of the population and be just fine. In fact, AI tech that is why policy decisions are geared towards disincentivising reproduction among the native white populations of 1st world countries. They see us as useless eaters, stealing "their" resources, and want to assure there don't exist enough people to fight them if/when the time comes.

AI is a double edged sword.
Imagine a bee sized robot equipped with sting with poison programmed to seek and kill some prominent people (politicians, business leaders etc).
An autonomous one and powered by micro-PV or just a graft which can be installed on a real bee to turn it into controllable bio robot. Basic tech (of bee into bio robot conversion) is already here and some results are published...
Imagine this tech equipped with iris pattern based face recognition and other target identification tech.
Now imagine hundreds of thousands and millions of units worth $5 each made in secret locations and released into wild - relentlessly patrolling world, seeking and killing.
Once released it won't be long before any large scale leadership no longer exist... No national leadership is safe...

Those who tamper with AI deployment better think twice.
Everything produced is going to be hacked and used in countless unexpected and ingenious ways.
It may be counterintuitive but AI might spell an end to organized societies as we know them.
OK - you may not like an artificial killer AI bee but what about AI computer virus built base on polymorphic codes and equipped in machine learning and self improvement modules designed to cripple and corrupt permanently all internet databases including financial records and make any large scale computing no longer possible?
This could be a one man or a small team job - and potentially ready for release tomorrow morning.
This might be even an accidental release (or a sabotage) during testing of advanced cyberwarfare.

Ever thought about Fermi Paradox and a Great Filter? - here you have a possible solution.
There is a possibility that some easy to bump on technology exists which causes either extinction of planetary life or extinction of designer species or destroys permanently social cohesion of designer species and further progress is no longer possible.
We might be very close to inventing it.
One of your elite members (Elon) is tacitly mentioning that for some time - and he is expressing concerns.
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 27 Jan 2025, 06:09:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', 'I') don't remember the exact reason why, but he tried to get a passport to leave the USA and was denied. These legal obligations may be the reason.

Quite so. A man would be mad in the head to marry these days but many still line up and believe all the sweet promises told them by the girl of their dreams. Girls have a shelf life, maximum about 8 years, I've seen it over and over again. One buddies on his 3rd, the trophy wife, 10 years younger. Once he retires out and the income drops she'll be eyeing a replacement no doubt. Her sister is a real pro at it, crawling her way up the social ladder one c0ck at a time. She's a real stunner though, the last husband owned a chain of jewellery stores, she took half of that!

Anyway I don't have a set against women, like I don't have a set against Eastern Brown snakes, I just like to warn people of the dangers, I treat them the same way, give them a wide berth. Sure I'm curious, I'll even stop sometimes for a better look but then move on.

Have a look at this, they saved 10 years to buy it :razz:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oBbIhnq0hho
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 27 Jan 2025, 07:06:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')Anyway I don't have a set against women, like I don't have a set against Eastern Brown snakes, I just like to warn people of the dangers, I treat them the same way, give them a wide berth. Sure I'm curious, I'll even stop sometimes for a better look but then move on.

As you know, I have married Asian over 30 years ago and it works for me very well.
Somehow our basic deal is to always work for family benefit and screw everything else as required.
We always had rebellious souls and paid due disrespect to most of things around us.
When we bumped together we at once knew that we are meant for each other.
But she is intelligent (IQ 125-130 for a woman is a real achievement) so she can calculate what works best for her and what doesn't.
It makes life easy and I always get my breakfast to bed - unless we go somewhere or there is something important to do and time is at price. But yes - she can always rely on me when in need.
Yet she still keeps her look perhaps looking 20 years younger than she is - and no, doing so doesn't involve tons of expensive cosmetics. Just genes.
I cannot imagine life without a dedicated woman, though I understand that it is increasing luxury these days.
We have a problem to find appropriate women for our sons - though we are diligently searching in Malaysian Chinese communities with aid of relatives of my wife. In Europe odds to find one are bleak.

I do not try to glorify my wife but credits are to be given where due - she has proven to be a very good choice.
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 27 Jan 2025, 08:48:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')I do not try to glorify my wife but credits are to be given where due - she has proven to be a very good choice.

Yes, you did well, and of course 30 years ago the world was a little different, values different. There are always exceptions to the rule but for me at my age, why bother. I'm a loner, I like to get up at 2am for a pushbike ride in dark some days, like to vanish for 2 or 3 days on a motorcycle, like to spend hours or days just doing my own thing absorbed in some hobby. I had a very tolerant woman a decade or more back and we lived together but in the end it was getting too much for her and for me. I'd go off up country for days with my telescope and she's say something like, "Oh well, it's not like we're married, you can go if you want." Subtle guilt trips like that can really cruel a nice time away, I was glad to be rid of her in the end though I missed her company at times.

Just look at this lawn mower, it's not my style but I could imagine using it. Cylinder mowers give an amazingly precise cut if they are setup and serviced right. I could imagine spending hours restoring such a mower and keeping it perfectly maintained, just for the sake of "it's worth it". It would give me great pleasure in fact and even if I encountered a problem I would know it had a logical solution and that wouldn't deter me. Such is not always the case with women!

Image

This is an example of one of my bikes, the S1000RR, one of the fastest on the road. I love it, it's a pleasure just to clean the rims of road grime and Mr Sheen the plastic to make it shine. I was out on it just yesterday, powering through the corners, overtaking cars and trucks like they were standing still. The only thing more exhilarating would be a fighter jet I recon. I do all my own maintenance, the last was replacing the chain and sprockets, a simple job if you have the tools and a manual. I was downstairs the other night polishing the white painted rims on another bike I bought as a xmass present for myself, I spent hours preening it, listening to podcasts while my married neighbors spent hours sitting in front of the TV with their wives watching ads and boring reality shows. That's often the price of marriage, it's sacrifice, and fair enough too, if you care for it. I don't! And I don't watch TV or even own one, not many people can get their head around that life choice!

Image

Image
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 27 Jan 2025, 10:01:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', ' ') I'm a loner, I like to get up at 2am for a pushbike ride in dark some days, like to vanish for 2 or 3 days on a motorcycle, like to spend hours or days just doing my own thing absorbed in some hobby.

When young I was a climber. Later we were both climbing (my wife and me). Once children were born climbing was gone.
But now in our 50-thies, once children are adult, we are sometimes climbing again but on easier, recreational routes.
If a lone life suits you and keeps you happy it is great.
But you must have few hobbies and enjoy them. Keeping good health is also very important but to a large degree it is pot luck as we already discussed.

Some lone men can do well like you do - hobbies, total freedom, great bikes etc but as per my observations most don't.
Here in Poland most of lone men over 40 are miserable drunkards, often on their way out. Some of them had women in the past and got screwed up (or they screwed it up) and others are bachelors for life.

I know in person only one life long bachelor who has (as per my believes) successful life. Also many hobbies like you do etc.
Funny enough, he has also a great motorbike and looks a bit tougher than I am even if a bit older :)

Most of bachelors I know are our customers (we are running tourism related business as you probably already know).
They come during summer and whine, whine and whine even more...
And we have to listen to all this nonsense and health complains (sometimes with explicit details about prostate being chopped off and following loss of ability to keep urine while walking).
They don't have wives or anyone else so they come and complain to us.
Absolutely disgusting.
You see, we do listen to it because we are paid for it and they are our customers spending $$$$ every year, so what we can do?
Children are hardly being born, young people drowning in debt with hardly any discretionary money to spend, plenty of competition etc so every customer is a valuable one...
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 27 Jan 2025, 19:23:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'W')hen young I was a climber. Later we were both climbing (my wife and me). Once children were born climbing was gone.
But now in our 50-thies, once children are adult, we are sometimes climbing again but on easier, recreational routes.
If a lone life suits you and keeps you happy it is great.
But you must have few hobbies and enjoy them. Keeping good health is also very important but to a large degree it is pot luck as we already discussed.

Some lone men can do well like you do - hobbies, total freedom, great bikes etc but as per my observations most don't...
I know in person only one life long bachelor who has (as per my believes) successful life. Also many hobbies like you do etc.
Funny enough, he has also a great motorbike and looks a bit tougher than I am even if a bit older :)

Yeah, motorcycle riders, old school ones at least, have a bit of an attitude lol. I know I do, and having studied/trained in karate for several years only reinforces that.

My brother was a bachelor but not a happy man, he was a drunk like those you referred to. I don't drink, haven't since my thirties and am more like my now passed away uncle who was a lifelong bachelor. He had his boats and fishing, his great love, and lots of friends and kept active all his life. I've been single for about 8 years now, no 10 actually, and I love it, I love the freedom. I did have a fling a year or so back but it went nowhere, a fifty year old woman who acted like she was 25, always plucking eyebrows and tinting her hair and all the crap western women are obsessed with. She didn't last long at all, she had no soul!

Hobbies? Astronomy, photography, microscopy, cycling both pushbike and motorcycle. I even have an N-scale train layout and several remote control cars, all the toys 8) One girlfriend once referred to my interests as Obsessions, and they were because when I got into a new thing I'd be lost in it for months! I'm spread pretty thin now, haven't played with those RC cars in a year but I'll get back to them eventually. The bachelor life certainly isn't for everyone but it's certainly for me. If it was 100 years ago I'd possibly be married? But possibly not! Back then women were women and let men be men. They gave respect but now most think they are equal in all areas as men. Hell most can't even start a lawn mower, let a lone change the oil in a car, Or Cook a decent meal even :lol:
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby Shaved Monkey » Sat 01 Feb 2025, 20:10:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he cost of raising a child in China is the second highest in the world, according to Chinese think tank Yuwa Population Research, and 3.3 times more expensive than raising a child in Australia.

Chinese parents also usually spend a lot of money on their children's extracurricular tutoring to make sure they don't fall behind their peers, and help their adult children pay for housing, cars, and weddings.

There is also an expectation that a couple needs a child to continue the family lineage and have someone look after them in old age.

China recently announced it was launching pilot projects in more than 20 cities to create a "new-era" marriage and child-bearing culture to foster a friendly child-bearing environment.

Also, single women can now take paid maternity leave and receive child subsidies — and take IVF treatment legally.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-20/ ... /102367934

There is also an expectation that a couple needs a child to continue the family lineage and have someone look after them in old age.
Promoting marrying, having children at appropriate ages, encouraging parents to share child-rearing responsibilities, and curbing high "bride prices" and other outdated customs were the focus of the projects.

The government's political advisers proposed in March that single and unmarried women should have access to egg freezing and IVF treatment, among other services to boost the country's fertility rate.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-20/ ... /102367934

Its going to require cultural change but not having kids isnt just Chinas problem its nearly every countries....or is it a problem
Do we need large populations to run factories and armies in the future or will robots do most of it
Taxes will need to be raised to pay for the aged though
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 02 Feb 2025, 13:52:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shaved Monkey', '
')Its going to require cultural change but not having kids isnt just Chinas problem its nearly every countries....or is it a problem
Do we need large populations to run factories and armies in the future or will robots do most of it
Taxes will need to be raised to pay for the aged though

IMO global population is obviously too large and substantial trimming down is a good idea.
Something like 1-2 billions would be optimal but sufficient time for population reduction is needed if you wish to preserve stability.
If you drop TFR too much you will face discontinuum and societal crash best described as hard landing.
Perhaps you may go down to TFR of around 1.5 and somehow keep state functional but go to 1 - 1.1 (what China enjoys now) or to 0.74 seen in South Korea and you are in free fall.
System won't survive it.
It is interesting how authoritarian systems are going to respond facing abyss.
Some extreme measures including state blessed systemic violation of women might be expected once situation becomes to be hopeless and intractable by other means.
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Re: Not having enough children becomes to be a crime in Chin

Postby theluckycountry » Sun 02 Feb 2025, 18:08:13

Perhaps it's a murmuration? Perhaps Everyone just subconsciously has decided the Earth is full? Perhaps it's the modern end of Empire selfish trend?
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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