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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 08 Jul 2024, 04:07:03

Oh look, Adam crawled back in :lol:
Used Tesla prices are tanking…. Down almost 50% in less ...
Why Are Used Tesla Prices Falling Faster than Expected?
Aggressive Tesla price cuts pummel the used EV market
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby AdamB » Mon 08 Jul 2024, 10:45:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'O')h look, Adam crawled back in :lol: [/quuote]
More like just noticed the difference between those who couldn't graduate high school (even in Australia where kangaroo riding passes as education) and those who did.

Anyway, after doing nearly a solid year of that science/problem solving/amaze your colleagues and impress the world stuff again (would have taken 2 years to complete if I had kept trying to explain how 2+2 works to the likes of you) it is getting into the review, publication and accolades part. Which is far less time consuming. So I can glance around the internet and see that you haven't gotten any smarter, still say things that aren't true, and are still getting pummeled by those with brains.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheLuckCountry', '
')Used Tesla prices are tanking…. Down almost 50% in less ...
Why Are Used Tesla Prices Falling Faster than Expected?
Aggressive Tesla price cuts pummel the used EV market


A) Tesla prices tanking is just THRILLING the wife, she is focused like a laser on the Model Y, but a new one
B) Since I don't own a Tesla who cares except halfwits who don't understand supply and demand
C) Market competition is almost always a good thing for the consumer...so the wife is thrilled that EV prices continue to become more reasonable, and I still have time to get her to forget about it altogether and just focus on the next 250k km on the ones we already own.

I've got the same 2 EVs, 387k kilometers on the 2 of them, haven't gone in for repairs, tires, gasoline, or maintenance of any kind in the year I've been out working, collected a few new firearms, both kids now have Master's degrees (you know Lucky, those things you can't even pass tests to get into the program that preceeds the program that preceeds the program to ATTEMPT to get into) and are doing the full time worker thing.

I did sell one motorcycle, and replace it with another though. That is important. Switched from sport touring back to dual-sport/offroading. The kids are both still riding theirs as well. Haven't been able to talk the wife into the sport yet though. We could form our own club, get jackets and cool insignia sewn onto them, etc etc. You can keep your kangaroos. :-D
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 08 Jul 2024, 18:46:11

Young Aussies inundated with calls after finding solution to major electric vehicle problem
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he young entrepreneurs have been celebrated by many, though anything to do with EVs often come with its skeptics. After seeing the rise in EVs around Melbourne and other parts of Victoria, and hearing about a lack of charging stations available, two young Aussies have come up with a seemingly obvious, and much-needed solution. "We were just like, let's see if we can deliver a mobile [charging] service for customers".

The vehicles carrying the chargers are not electric, which has been pointed out by some critics. While business is still picking up since their recent launch, the pair have received a "hell of a lot" of phone calls from people wanting help fixing chargers, businesses looking to organise a subscription to the service, and from some in need of a rescue.

Most recently, an EV was left stranded on the Mornington Peninsular after a "public charging station" was "out of service", not unheard of while EV infrastructure is still growing, so a truck was sent out for a $200 "fast charge".


So now we have to send Diesel powered trucks toting generators around the country when these EVidiots get their range calculations wrong :badgrin: I don't blame the blokes running a business, a buck's a buck and it's a small waster of the Planets resources compared to spending $50,000+ worth of oil and coal to build a car that has to be tossed in the dumpster 8 years later.

With new EV cars piling up in ports and carparks and dealerships all across the world the madness is slowly coming to an end but there will be the inevitable hangover. The Trillions wasted, the millions of cars with these toxic batteries that will never be recycled. The down slope of PeakEV will not be a pretty sight.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..to book a once-off service with Daniel and Toby's company, it costs anywhere between $130 and $300, depending on if it was outside of hours and whether it was scheduled or not. "It is absolute bare minimum we can do with running costs," Daniel explained...
Suck it up fools!

Here the average public has already turned very dismissive of the whole concept. In Australian parlance, they couldn't give a shit about these virtue signalling yuppies.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')hoto showing four cars parked side by side on electric vehicle (EV) parking bays has highlighted the "infuriating" reality EV drivers face, with some reminding offenders of the hefty fines they could face for behaving in such a way. The four different coloured cars in question all have one thing in common — they aren't electric cars. And as an EV driver searched for a charging station, he snapped an image of the four culprits to call out the behaviour at the Cairns car park on Saturday.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/ev-drivers-un ... 27577.html
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 08 Jul 2024, 19:17:32

'Rude' EV problem now making its way to Aussie regions
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The Engineer spotted an EV charging from the street, which had a cord running across the paved footpath, over an adjacent lawn, all the way to the top storey of a block of units. It's situations like these that are becoming more common in Australia, even in regional towns.

"It surprised me, it was a real trip hazard," Bensley told the ABC. "There was no attempt to put anything over the cable, and it had rained the night before, so it was nice and wet." "You see a lot of that in the city areas, where people are in high-density terrace houses. It's a bit of a surprise to see this turning up in Sawtell," he said.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/rude-ev-probl ... 31185.html

I knew it would come to this, bloody EVidiots. Range anxiety + charging anxiety. The pictures in the story paint 1000 words.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Tue 09 Jul 2024, 12:35:58

Who would have thought a year ago when EV startups were burgeoning and Tesla sales were going up and up that those same startups would all be in bankruptcy or gone? That Tesla sales would have turned negative? Why me of course. I have been calling this BS all along while fanboi like kub and adam kept beating the EV world takeover drum
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
') theluckycountry wrote:
The EV will reach its market saturation and continue to be popular, until fossil fuel depletion makes them uneconomic to build.
AdamB "Or makes them the only game in town."

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78588&p=1490465&view=show#p1490465

The only game in town Adam? Sounds a little silly now doesn't it.
What kub and adam say is often couched in politispeak, they say what they believe then put a question mark on it so later they could say "I never said that" "I never had sexual relations with that woman"

Why are people, Americans in particular, constantly sucked in by these get rich quick schemes? Financial Bubbles are like Police cars, obvious after you have seen your first one. They all have the same general set of markings, the flashing lights and loud sirens. Here is how they form.

A seemingly bright idea comes along and people begin talking about it, profits are being made.
The noise of this "new thing" builds and builds and share prices go up and up.
After a time the noise becomes Shrill, the intellectuals and politicians become involved
This is the Future, can't you see? Endless profits for all.
Now the masses, reassured by all this, rush in to get rich too!
Then the first shock comes, markets fall.
This where the faithful double down but the politicians and intellectuals drop it like a Hot potato.

If you have reached this stage (and we have) it's too late to get any profits out. The shares you bought have collapsed in price and the EV you bought a year ago has likewise crashed in price. Every investor needs to have a sell rule and if you haven't divested yourself of this crap yet you need to do it today and take your losses.

Rivian, the second largest EV player in America, look at the default chart that loads off
https://www.barchart.com/stocks/quotes/RIVN
Looks good doesn't it? The companies rebounding! Now click the one year button. Oops.
Now the 5Y. What is the 5Y saying? That chart grasshoppers is the classic "I'm never coming back chart"

The Tesla Inc (TSLA) chart tells a different story but it's still way down from the bubble top and below the high of 2021. That's pretty poor considering all the inflation we have had due to the covid stimulus money printing isn't it. What would common sense tell you should happen to a valuable asset in times of rampant inflation?


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We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Tue 09 Jul 2024, 12:54:16

LG Energy, one of the biggest players in the EV battery space, reported a 58% drop in operating profits for the second quarter of the year, attributing the figure to the slowdown in EV sales.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')We have our back against the wall,” chief executive Lee Seok-hee wrote in a letter to employees. “We should all pull together.”

The company appears to have made a string of sub-optimal decisions to get to this point, namely aggressive investments in Europe and the United States in anticipation of an EV boom, according to the Financial Times.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... Sales.html
Oh that's right, the oilprice.com website is a conspiracy site full of crap isn't it HaHaHA

But there is Good News gentle EV fans

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')nlike the South Korean battery makers, the two world leaders—BYD and CATL—are mostly exposed to their home market where EV sales are the strongest in the world, so they have been shielded by the disappointing sales numbers on the other two key markets for the vehicles.

So, move to China kub, and find out for yourself if the communist party is playing fair with data. Oh I have no doubt those EV are being built, built like the Chinese Ghost cities were built HaHaHa.

Adam, you'll be able to score a yard full of used old EV if you move there, the fields are full of them!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Tue 09 Jul 2024, 15:34:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'O')h that's right, the oilprice.com website is a conspiracy site full of crap isn't it HaHaHA
No, I read oilprice.com all the time.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'S')o, move to China kub, and find out for yourself if the communist party is playing fair with data. Oh I have no doubt those EV are being built, built like the Chinese Ghost cities were built HaHaHa.
Oh I have seen my fair share of shady data coming out of China. And the ghost cities, bicycle graveyards, unused EV car lots, etc. Not to mention China's overproduction problem in general that extends far beyond cars. But with over 40% of car sales in China EVs, sometimes over 50%, only a fool would dismiss EVs as a large market segment in China. ICE sales are slumping hard in China. ICE market share in China nearly halved in the last 5 years. And ICE makers and dealers have the red ink to prove it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')lmost 704,000 new passenger plug-in electric cars were registered in China in April. That's about 30% more than a year ago, while the market share amounted to 44%, compared to 35% in April 2023.
China's Plug-In Car Sales Increased To 44% Market Share In April 2024

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') quick market analysis between April 1 and 14 shows that EV sales account for more than 50% of all car sales in China. This is a huge milestone that was not coming before 2028, at least according to some analysts.

ICE sales are slumping particularly hard. Overall car sales fell 11% year-on-year. ICE vehicle sales by Chinese ventures are falling from a cliff this year, with SAIC GM sales down by 14.5%, GAC Honda by 13.7%, and SAIC Volkswagen by 8%. Even the best-selling ICE cars in March, the Toyota Camry and VW Lavida, fell by 59.2% and by 36.4%, respectively.
Chinese EV car sales exceed 50% for the first time ever

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')hina's Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) sales are collapsing!

1. ICE Vehicle Market Share Is About To Drop Below 50% In China. ICE market share almost halved in 5 years.
Image China's Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) sales are collapsing!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')M China sales decreased 29 percent to 372,800 units during the second quarter of 2024. Second-quarter 2024 sales at SAIC-GM – GM’s primary joint venture in China responsible for Buick, Chevrolet, and Cadillac operations – decreased 49.94 percent to 120,000 units.

* Buick sales decreased 40.3 percent to 81,300 units.
* Buick Velite 6 EV sales more than tripled to more than 17,000 units.
* Chevrolet sales decreased 79.8 percent to 9,700 units.
* Cadillac sales decreased 47.7 percent to 29,000 units.
* All-new Cadillac Optiq was launched as the second Ultium-based Cadillac in China in Q2. The model adds to the EV momentum built by the Cadillac Lyriq in the luxury SUV segment.
* Second-quarter 2024 sales at SAIC-GM-Wuling (SGMW) – GM’s other Chinese joint venture responsible for Wuling and Baojun brands – decreased 11.75 percent to 252,800 units.
* Baojun sales increased 98.9 percent to 8,200 units. Baojun sales grew substantially year-over-year thanks to the EV portfolio, which includes the all-new Baojun Yep and Baojun Yun Duo. GM China Sales Fell 29 Percent In Second Quarter 2024

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ere's an interesting facet of China's ongoing shift to EVs: even though ICE cars are still the majority of China’s new-car market, overall plummeting demand for ICE is causing chaos with prices.

Automakers' official prices (MRSP) haven't changed, but a reliable source of local car-buying data (Yiche.com) shows that dealers across China are giving massive discounts - 35% discounts are now common on once-popular ICE models (see list below) - to shift brand-new ICE cars from their forecourts.
* BMW X1 sDrive20Li = $40k -> $26,000
* Mercedes GLB 200 = $43k -> $28,300
* Audi Q3 35 TFSI = $38,600 -> $25,100
* Toyota RAV4 2.0L = $24,400 -> $17,500
* BMW 320i = $41,400 -> $29,700
* Volvo XC90 B5 = $88,100 -> $65,100

brutal, huh!

...
Well, this is a duh really for anyone remotely connected to china. As China shifts to EVs, dealers forced to offer massive discounts on ICE cars

In addition, as I have pointed out to you many times lucky, EV sales are growing worldwide:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ore than 1.32 million new passenger plug-in electric cars were registered globally in May. The market share amounted to roughly 20%, compared to 16% a year ago.

Global EV Sales Increases
During the first five months of the year, plug-in car sales exceeded 5.5 million units. The full year 2024 is expected to end between 15 to 20 million units (probably close to 20 million, depending on the usual acceleration in the second half of the year). All-electric car registrations accounted for about 66% of all plug-in car registrations, which is more than 860,000 units. The growth rate wasn't bad at all, reaching 17% year over year.

The U.S. and Canada were up by 18% year-over-year.

Smaller markets outside of the big three (China, Europe, and the U.S./Canada) posted big gains. Mexico, Chile, and Malaysia more than doubled their plug-in car sales, while Brazil more than tripled, and Russia noted a massive 549% year-over-year increase (from a low base).

In other words, electrification is taking off almost everywhere, although the process is not smooth, and there will be periods of local decline.
Image
Global Plug-In Car Sales Hit 1.3 Million In May 2024

Perhaps the most obvious sign of the changing market is that ICE sales peaked years ago. You are free to have your opinion that EVs suck. But it does your argument no credit when you ignore reality that EVs are becoming a larger and larger part of the market. And yes, that includes outside of China too.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')vidence from the International Energy Agency (IEA) and Bloomberg New Energy Foundation suggests that peak sales of internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles passed as long as eight years ago. Whatever your opinions of them, electric powered vehicles are gradually taking over.

As can be seen in the figure below, global ICE vehicle sales hit their peak in 2017 and are in increasing decline.

Not to be ignored are emerging markets – 2- and 3-wheelers are the mode of transport for the majority of the world’s population. You’re more likely to receive a delivery by tuk-tuk than a van in India or Vietnam, and the data suggests that electric versions are already at just below 50% of global sales.

Image
Have internal combustion engines had their day?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Tue 09 Jul 2024, 17:05:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'W')hat kub and adam say is often couched in politispeak, they say what they believe then put a question mark on it so later they could say "I never said that"
Oh you really want to go down this road? You? Who posts lie after lie after lie? Out of all the posters on this board, you are the one most know for pulling "facts" straight out of your ass. Lets take a look at a few of your lies shall we?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'T')esla favors NCM type batteries because of energy density, weight, etc. Safety is of little concern to EV makers, it doesn't sell like performance sells. LiFePO4 is the obvious choice for EV's but you'll never see it in mass usage. Profit is all that matters now.
Flat out lie. Tesla sells many LiFePO4:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')esla confirmed that nearly half of all its vehicles produced last quarter are already using cobalt-free iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries.
Tesla is already using cobalt-free LFP batteries in half of its new cars produced

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'I')t's very telling that the world leader in automotive's, Toyota, have no plans at all to build an EV. They see a practical use for the hybrid, the self recharging hybrid, but not a full electric.
Another lie:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')Toyota's CEO] has indicated he will accelerate Toyota’s fully electric vehicle tech development. Last month, Sato revealed his new vision for the company, including significantly boosting EV productivity and profitability. Those plans include 10 new battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and 1.5 million EV sales (as a “base volume”) annually by 2026.

Toyota confirms a dedicated EV platform is in the works
During Toyota’s fiscal earnings release, Sato said the automaker will invest an additional 1 trillion yen ($7.5 billion) into EV development and production by the end of 2030. Toyota is creating a dedicated BEV platform with plans to reveal next-gen EVs

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'E')V market is grinding to a halt

I called it, PeakEV, first quarter 2023Another lie:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')lobal EV sales continue strong. A total of 6 million new Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) and Plug-in Hybrids (PHEV) were delivered during the first half of 2023, an increase of +40%. 4,27 million were pure electric BEVs and 1,76 million were PHEVs. EV shares continued to climb in all markets. BEVs (10 %) and PHEVs (4,1 %) stood for 14,1 % of global light vehicle sales at the close of H1, compared to 11,3 % in 2022 H1. Global EV Sales for 2023 H1

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'R')educing production because Peak EV has been reached.Another lie:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') total of 14,2 million new Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) and Plug-in Hybrids (PHEV) were delivered during 2023, an increase of +35 % Global EV Sales for 2023

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'A')s for Norway
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ybrids, including both plug-in hybrids and traditional hybrids, made up a significant portion of new car sales in the country. The exact percentage can vary from month to month and year to year due to market dynamics and government incentives, but it was estimated to be around 50% or more of new car sales in Norway.So it's not 90% of sales, since Hybrids are nothing more than fossil fuel powered cars.Another lie:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')anuary saw combined EVs at 93.9% share in Norway, comprising a record 92.1% full electrics (BEVs), and just 1.8% plugin hybrids (PHEVs). EVs At 93.9% Share In Norway — Record High

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'G')M CEO Calls It QUITS on EVsAnother lie:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')eneral Motors CEO Mary Barra said Wednesday the Detroit automaker still plans on moving to all electric vehicle sales by 2035 even as it has recently delayed some EV production. GM still planning to end gas-powered vehicle sales by 2035

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'B')asically your post touches on the new reality, that all quality Western builders are rolling over and cheap Asian product is flooding the market but there is nothing in it that is proof that sales have increased, just sketchy data from Communist China.Another lie:

GM's electric car sales hit a new record

Ford’s EV sales surge in Q2, topping GM for second in the US EV market behind Tesla

BMW U.S. EV Sales Improved To Near-Record Level In Q2 2024

On and on it goes. You form an opinion and them make up BS to support your opinion.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Tue 09 Jul 2024, 18:01:24

Ahh look, kub made two posts. I wonder what he said? Doesn't matter, it's all just delusions anyway. One day he'll quietly give up just like all the Segway fanboi did.

https://forums.segwaychat.org/forumdisp ... -1&page=34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')i]09-06-2002 Some good points Seeker. I had a thread on GingerChat last year about automated roadways for Segway's and similar vehicles. Segways would take up so little space that a 5 foot wide paved road would accomadate them in the fashion it takes a 24 foot wide road to accomadate two lanes of cars and trucks. I have a feeling that is well into the future if it happens, because of the reluctance of people to pay taxes for anything.

Your point about lighter weight construction is also good. When you compare an 80 pound Segway plus 250 pound rider at 330 pounds, it is about one tenth the weight of a moderate sized car, such as a Camry.

01-20-2003 The Segway HT is terribly misunderstood and, as witnessed in San Francisco, you don't have to just sell legislators on how it can coexist on sidewalks with pedestrian traffic. Citizens, a small number of citizens, spoke out and got their way. I don't believe most of them really understand the Segway HT. We all have to get the public at large to understand it. It's important that the public and the media realize that a Segway is as much like a powered scooter as a golf cart is like a bus.

Yes, people just didn't understand the Segway and how it could revolutionize transport. "Segway Haters" who never rode one shouldn't have able to express opinions!!!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')02-09-2003 Well, I can't speak for anyone else ... but once I get my HT I'll probably be out of the house and away from the computer a lot more. I'll probably go to places where I'll want to park it and walk around. I can see why people would argue that we'll do less walking, but we're sure not burning many calories sitting in front of the computer. Just having the HT available will lend itself to a more active lifestyle. At least for me

I have difficulty walking any distance and exploring trips with my wife have been drastically curtailed, mostly eliminated. She loves to walk and I'm really looking forward to gliding with her around town, through parks and scenic areas we used to enjoy and now because of the Segway HT we'll be able to travel once again.

I'll be buying my Segway mostly for recreational use as I live too far from my job to glide in every day, but those little lunch trips and errands 'around the corner' will no longer involve the use of a car. I've got distances clocked to the college I attend, to the supermarket, to the drug store, to the McDonalds and convenience store... I'm already planning my travels and I'm really looking forward to that first, inaugural ride.


Bush and Cheney are onboard, it's the future of city transport. Don't be a Segway Denier!

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We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Tue 09 Jul 2024, 19:06:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'A')hh look, kub made two posts. I wonder what he said? Doesn't matter, it's all just delusions anyway.
As expected, you didn't even bother to refute any of it. Just shows how much of a liar you are.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'O')ne day he'll quietly give up just like all the Segway fanboi did.
Ah yes, I'm such a hardcore EV fanboi I drive an ICE corolla and own oil stocks instead of EV stocks. But then again this is lucky, what should I expect other than more lies?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'Y')es, people just didn't understand the Segway and how it could revolutionize transport. "Segway Haters" who never rode one shouldn't have able to express opinions!!!


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby AdamB » Wed 10 Jul 2024, 15:31:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', '
')I knew it would come to this, bloody EVidiots. Range anxiety + charging anxiety. The pictures in the story paint 1000 words.

Bloody AUSTRALIAN idiots. Not that other countries don't have folks that can't pass tests to graduate high school, but in Australia even THOSE people have plenty of dumber people to whine about, in this case some EVer or another.

Lucky has this problem solved though. He might not have the mind blowing genius to graduate high school, but he has transportation locked!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Wed 10 Jul 2024, 18:16:14

Hey boyos, got some new news for ya.

Mercedes DESTROYS EVs at SCRAPYARD, goes fully back to Gas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD37ARu5ATY
EV Owners Trashing Rides To The JUNKYARD After ONE Repair - "Total Waste!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmnhJJthWHU
Tesla 'graveyard' photo shows major shift in Aussie EV market
https://au.news.yahoo.com/tesla-graveya ... 58407.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67huQP-P1k
https://www.theverge.com/24194493/forev ... -batteries

For years, a decade and more, the mainstream media has cheerleaded the EV revolution. Now they have turned on it and all the stories are negative. This will be the biggest single factor in crushing the EV. Everyone takes their lead from the TV set, it's their Brain HaHaHa
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Wed 10 Jul 2024, 19:04:52

On a personal note I'm really glad I didn't get sucked into this EV swindle. I came near 4 years ago, I was in the market for a new car and had the cash sitting there, but unlike most I did some serious research, mostly on forums of EV owners. When you go looking to spend big on new technology it's best to begin by ignoring all the positive posts and focus on the negative ones, then decide if you can live with these downsides.

Average people, people like AdamB above, will buy something and then "learn to live with it" The human Ego doesn't want to admit it made a critical mistake, that's why people stay in shit marriages and crap jobs for so long. So ignoring the "Oh it's so great" comments I began to see a pattern. Owners basically had to change their entire lifestyles just to accommodate their EV. It dictated where they could drive to, where they could stay, even where they parked every night! Have you ever driven off in a hurry to go somewhere on a low tank and thought "Bugger" I need fuel. It's a little inconvenient, you have to stop at a gas station and probably not your favorite. But if you make this error in an EV your trip is OVER!

I saw the real world battery life info, that is only now leaking into the media. I saw the long delays in service times, how traveling through the mountains seriously cuts my range. How in Winter my driving range is seriously degraded if I want to simply run the heater! And all the while the Egomaniacs were brushing off these downsides, "Oh it's totally worth it" "They sent a truck and I had my car back in less than a month" "I bought the 3-phase fast charger and now I'm full again in 2 hours" "I don't have to go to the Gas station ever again, Oh happy days"

I though of my own life and how my cars and bikes were fun to drive but were just there. I didn't have to fuss over them? New tires, a service every year say, and all could be put off for weeks or a month or two if I cared. I was under no pressure with Gasoline powered cars, they served me. No so with the EV, I would be it's servant. And if I didn't stick to it's rules it would punish me by leaving me stranded on the road somewhere far from home.

So I backed away from the EV, but I took on board what the ego posters said, that in the years to come all these problems would be solved. I decided to wait and enjoy my life as it was until the EV could match it. Well guess what! The problems weren't solved, they actually got worse. And now apparently I'm to blame for the EV failure HaHa. That's right folks, that's where all the Hate comes from. It's my fault because I didn't buy one and because I spoke against them revealing the downsides.

You see if we all had bought one then "They" would have built out the charging infrastructure and prices would have fallen. This is what angers the EV Egomaniacs now. Their dream is collapsing and soon they will be abandoned like a houseboat on a dry lake. Well I'm sorry Mr. EV buyer, but you only have yourself to blame. You rushed in where angels fear to tread and now you'll just have to live with the consequences. Accept your mistake and go park your old EV beside your Segway and all that dusty Gym equipment you never use.
We're 17 years past the peak now and the 3rd World is going hungry and dark. We'll be next, we're well on the way in fact.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Wed 10 Jul 2024, 21:19:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'F')or years, a decade and more, the mainstream media has cheerleaded the EV revolution. Now they have turned on it and all the stories are negative. This will be the biggest single factor in crushing the EV. Everyone takes their lead from the TV set, it's their Brain HaHaHa
I wonder if you can appreciate the irony of accusing people of getting brainwashed by watching TV while at the same time you link to sensationalist garbage youtube channels. Go and click on the channel for that first youtube link of yours: 'ChargeDrive'. Just from the video titles and thumbnails it is obvious they are pushing a hardcore agenda. Your attempt to rise above the sheeple and their indoctrination has utterly failed if you are educating yourself with sensationalist garbage like 'ChargeDrive'. It took 5 seconds to prove your Mercedes link was BS. Mercedes announced they are walking back their EV targets. But instead of reporting that, 'ChargeDrive' reports "The EV dream is over, Mercedes just ditched EV production", a flat out lie. This is the exact same kind of BS story you posted earlier with your story about 'GM CEO Calls It QUITS on EVs'. One would think you would learn your lesson after getting it so incredibly wrong last time. Nope. You lap it up like a dog eating its own mess.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Thu 11 Jul 2024, 17:02:40

That 50 grand I was going to drop on a Nissan leaf, boy I dodged a bullet there, I bought gold with it instead, couldn't leave it in the bank. My little luxury 4x4 is still going strong, only 150,000km on the clock, hardly run in for this one. I probably would have upgraded it by now though had Covid not intruded, we all pulled our horns in with that. Now I look around the global financial scene and say to myself "Keep those horns pulled in LuckyCountry, there are bad times on the horizon."

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Thu 11 Jul 2024, 17:35:30

Tesla Shares Tumble On Report Of Robotaxi Unveil Delay

So what's new? We're still waiting for the Tesla Semi. We'll I'm not, that was a Musk joke all along. Has anyone ever stopped to consider why they never began to electrify the interstate truck fleet? Or the farm machinery fleets? Or all the bulldozers and dump trucks in the mines? Ha, remember that Diesel powered one you tried to sell us on kub, the one with the huge engine driving a generator to power the wheels? Yes you got caught out on that one didn't you. Made you look like a total numpty for not researching properly. EV's don't have radiators lol.

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Scale! It's what limits battery utility in vehicles and the rational stopping point is the electric golf cart. The electrified golf cart market never crashed. The electric drone market never crashed but went from strength to strength. The electric remote control toy car market is booming still after 45 years! It's gone from strength to strength. But the electric passenger vehicle market?

The passenger EV market has reached it's peak, overshot it actually, both in terms of ownership and in production. With half of EV owners switching back to gasoline and all the major established EV makers going down the tubes it will left to China to supply the reduced volume needed to satisfy the inner-city hipsters who can sort of make it work for them. People that never want to drive too far between charging, those wealthy enough to own a home with solar. The sort of people who think nothing of paying $30 for a coffee and a smashed avocado sandwich, $300 on the latest running shoes.

The end of an era
The end of the bubble

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby kublikhan » Thu 11 Jul 2024, 20:41:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('theluckycountry', 'H')a, remember that Diesel powered one you tried to sell us on kub, the one with the huge engine driving a generator to power the wheels? Yes you got caught out on that one didn't you. Made you look like a total numpty for not researching properly. EV's don't have radiators lol.
...
The end of an era
The end of the bubble
Lol! I remember that thread. That's the one you ran away from crying about how you refused to believe EV mining equipment even existed or something. It was like you were afraid of EVs. Did grandma get run over by an EV or something? Am I bringing up old traumas for you? Well hate to burst your bubble, but the era of electrification in mining is looking closer to its start rather than its end:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')DTechEx's report 'Electric Vehicles in Mining 2024-2044: Technologies, Players, and Forecasts' provides a deep and detailed analysis of the fast-growing electric mining vehicle industry. The electric mining vehicle market is in its early stages, but more and more major OEMs are increasingly electrifying their products, and mining companies have shown they are willing to adopt EVs. The growth of the industry will also be driven by complementary sectors being at further development stages (e.g., batteries, power electronics, charging), as well as policy drivers, health and safety benefits, and potential savings in total costs of ownership (TCO). This report considers these factors to predict the electric mining vehicle market to grow to over US$23 billion by 2044, representing a 32% CAGR.

[A potent incentive for EV adoption] will come from total cost of ownership (TCO) savings. Mining machines have a wide range of possible duty cycles, but the most intense of those can require operating 20-hour days on average or even around the clock. These vehicles consume a lot of diesel in the process, which is both more expensive than electricity and subject to considerable price volatility. IDTechEx analysis highlights that a single 150-tonne haul truck will require over US$850,000 per year in fuel, and electrification could save over US$5.5 million in energy costs alone over the vehicle's lifetime.

Up to now, much of the effort in haul truck electrification has come from the mining companies themselves as well as independent retrofitters - working together to modify existing diesel machines with battery or fuel cell technology. However, OEMs are increasingly making their way into this space, taking an active part in the production of electric haul trucks by developing EV models of their existing vehicles in-house.

The large batteries needed for electric haul trucks are now sufficiently advanced and competitively priced to encourage OEM involvement and EV adoption. These batteries regularly exceed 1 MWh, with the largest ones approaching 2 MWh. The wide range of designs and chemistries battery suppliers are employing to meet the size and performance demands of electric haul trucks are covered in this report.

Underground mining EVs are here to stay
The electrification of underground mining vehicles (i.e. electric underground loaders and electric underground trucks) offers a couple of additional benefits on top of those provided by surface vehicles. First and foremost are the reduced ventilation requirements of electric underground vehicles, which can provide massive OPEX savings for mines. Heat, noise, vibrations, and emissions put out by diesel combustion engines are a bigger concern underground than on the surface, and electrification of underground machines can deliver significant improvements to miners' health and safety.

It is for these reasons that underground mining vehicles have been the predominant area of focus for mining electrification. The batteries of these vehicles top out at under 500 kWh, making them easier to electrify and commercialize than haul trucks. Electric underground trucks and electric underground loaders have been on the market for over half a decade now and have seen slow but steady adoption within that time. OEMs are now working on expanding their electric vehicle offerings to meet the market demand. This includes the electrification of heavier underground vehicles, with the largest existing models now weighing upwards of 55 tonnes unloaded - approaching the weight of even the heaviest diesel models. Analysis shows that orders for electric underground vehicles have steadily increased, and they are expected to continue similarly moving forward.

This report brings together all these trends and more, highlighting the sea change that is coming to the global mining industry.
Electric Vehicles in Mining 2024-2044: Technologies, Players, and Forecasts

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')aterpillar turned the heads of CES attendees with a monstrous, all-electric underground mining loader – but the real game-changer wasn’t the big mining rig, or even the electric excavator. Instead, it was Cat’s cutting-edge energy management systems to keep electric equipment charged up and ready to work.

“We are thrilled to return to CES to showcase our advancements in energy solutions. This event is renowned as the proving ground for breakthrough technologies and global innovators, making it the ideal place for us to demonstrate our leadership in power systems and integrated service solutions, which help our customers in the energy transition,” said Rod Shurman, senior vice president of Caterpillar’s Electrification + Energy Solutions Division.
Caterpillar brings electric equipment ecosystem to CES2024

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ining companies are charging full speed ahead with plans to electrify equipment and operations. This drive is fueled by ambitious net-zero emissions targets and facilitated by maturing technologies.

Leading mining companies recognize the urgent need to reduce emissions, aligning with the global shift towards clean energy. Substantial economic incentives are also driving this shift, as ventilation alone accounts for 30-50 % of underground mine energy costs, highlighting the significant impact of reducing diesel-powered equipment.

Technological Developments Enabling Widespread Mining Electrification

Advances in battery technology
Recent advancements in battery capabilities and charging systems have facilitated the swift rise of electrification over the last five years.

Traditionally, trolley systems were the primary method for electrifying haul trucks. However, in the 1980s, the Kiruna Electric Truck system revolutionized the industry. Commercial battery-powered trucks entered the scene in 2013, and by 2017, several original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) offered electric trucks and loaders. The momentum in electrification accelerated around 2018, marked by Epiroc's second-generation battery fleet launch.

"Battery development has exceeded expectations," explained Mehrzad Ashnagaran, ABB's global product line manager for electrification and composite plants. "If you had asked us five to ten years ago, we could not have imagined where we would be today."

Larger haulage electrification solutions
The primary challenge for larger battery-electric haul trucks lies in designing a battery with the necessary energy density that can fit within the limited onboard space of the vehicle. However, significant progress has been achieved in expanding battery capacity to meet haul trucks' intensive energy needs.

For example, Williams Advanced Engineering, now under the ownership of Fortescue Metals Group, recently revealed a prototype battery system tailored for use in a Liebherr 240-ton haul truck. Additionally, Caterpillar has recently reported positive testing results for its first battery-powered 793 mining truck, which has a mammoth 265-ton haulage rating.

These developments demonstrate that mine-duty scale electrification is nearing commercial reality.

Fast charging connectors
Some experts point to ongoing enhancements in charging connector capabilities, which enable faster power transfer, as the most important breakthrough in accelerating adoption.

In 2021, ABB unveiled eMine, a comprehensive portfolio designed to seamlessly integrate battery-electric vehicles in mining. It includes charging products that prioritize energy efficiency and optimize overall performance for efficient operation.

The eMine portfolio incorporates fast off-board charging stations strategically placed across the mining area to support smaller haul trucks engaged in near-continuous operations with limited idle time.

Depending on the battery size (100-400 kWh for smaller haul trucks), charging times range from 6 to 24 minutes for 30 % to 90 % charge and 10 to 40 minutes for a full 0 % to 100 % charge.
Current Progress in Full Mining Electrification

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ustralian mining giants Rio Tinto and BHP have announced plans to collaborate and fast track the testing of large battery electric haul trucks at their massive iron ore mines in the Pilbara in the north west of Western Australia. Rio Tinto and BHP says that they will partner with manufacturers Caterpillar and Komatsu to conduct independent trials of their battery electric haul trucks.

Two CAT 793 battery electric haul trucks will be trialled first from the second half of 2024, and two Komatsu 930 battery electric haul trucks will be trialled from 2026.

Caterpillar and Komatsu will each provide one of their 240 tonne trucks to both BHP and Rio Tinto for the trials, and the two companies will share the results. Brazilian miner Vale has also signed up to trial the CAT 793 electric haul trucks in Brazil.

BHP and Rio Tinto both have net zero targets for 2050, but neither of their emission reductions plans is as ambitious as rival iron ore miner Fortescue Metals, which aims for “real zero” in its iron ore operations by 2030, which means not burning fossil fuels by then.

Fortescue is already trialling battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell haul trucks in the Pilbara, as well as introducing electric excavators which will save nearly 100 million litres of diesel a year.

The BHP trials will be at the Jimblebar Mine, which is now completing upgrades to site electrical transmission and distribution for high power charging infrastructure. The two companies will share their learnings on performance and productivity to help accelerate deployment of the giant battery vehicles.

“This collaboration brings together two leading global miners with two of the world’s biggest manufacturers of haul trucks to work on solving the critical challenge of zero-emissions haulage,” said Simon Trott, chief executive of Rio Tinto Iron Ore. BHP and Rio Tinto to fast track battery electric haul truck trials in Pilbara
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Fri 12 Jul 2024, 00:51:01

Thanks for the placeholder kub.
Here is the future of urban travel https://www.youtube.com/shorts/k4lHSV6s ... ture=share

Warning against EV owners' 'revolutionary' solution to common battery concern

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ustralian EV owners dabbling in vehicle-to-vehicle (V2V) charging have been warned the emerging technology is not yet fully understood and therefore could be dangerous, or even damaging to the car.

Aussies this week have been sharing their stories about how they've charged up their cars using a cable hooked to another EV, the equivalent to jump starting a petrol powered vehicle, known as an internal combustion engine (ICE). Though the system sounds undoubtedly handy, experts have warned that just because it's possible in some models, such as BYDs, doesn't mean we should be taking advantage of the tech just yet.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/warning-again ... 49936.html

The Future May Not Be As Electric as We Think

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')irtually every single forecast about the future of transport focuses on its electrification—on the idea that EVs will take over roads, displacing the internal combustion engine and making it history.

Not everyone agrees, however, and that includes Renault, China’s Geely and, as of last month, Saudi Aramco. The three are investing in a company that develops powertrain technology for internal combustion engine vehicles. The future may not be as electric as may expect.

Horse Powertrain came into existence at the end of May as a 50:50 joint venture between Renault and Geely. At the time, Renault’s chief executive said that the company would aim to become a leader in “ultra-low emission internal combustion engines and high economy hybrid technologies.”

Decarbonization, then, remains the top priority. Yet Renault and Geely are opting for an alternative way to achieve it, through fuel efficiency and other tech advancements in internal combustion rather than through total electrification.

The internal combustion engine has survived so long and remained the overwhelmingly dominant transportation technology for one simple reason: it has been superior to alternatives and its benefits have outweighed the costs consistently. It is at the cost-benefit analysis state that the EV revolution tripped and fell—because it seems that no one bothered to do that analysis. So the market made it for them, with the EV surge celebrated loudly last year slowing down before the year was even over. Horse Powertrain may yet acquire new shareholders.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby mousepad » Fri 12 Jul 2024, 06:09:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '
')
[A potent incentive for EV adoption] will come from total cost of ownership (TCO) savings. Mining machines have a wide range of possible duty cycles, but the most intense of those can require operating 20-hour days on average or even around the clock.

It would be interesting to see this idtechex calculation on this. A truck that's used 24h/day has no time for charging a 2MWh battery. And even if there's time for charging, I'm sure the degradation of the battery over time will require expensive replacements.

I think this mining haulers are a good application for super caps. You need enough charge for 1 haul. Back at the unload station you could insta-charge the caps for the next haul while dumping.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 15

Postby theluckycountry » Mon 15 Jul 2024, 18:27:14

Or you can just use Diesel and bypass having to build a power station at every mine site. The very idea of converting the mining equipment to battery power is retarded. Those things, Bulldozers, Scrapers, Massive trucks driving up out of open cuts use phenomenal amounts of energy. They would have to build earthmovers twice the size just to carry the battery packs and then they would still probably overheat.

It's why they never even tried, it's pointless. And if you did by some miracle find enough lithium to electrify all the cars then you'd still be left with refineries pumping out 30~40% Gasoline fractions with all the other fractions we need to run the modern world. What are you going to do with that unwanted gasoline? Pour it on the ground? The whole idea is beyond stupid and just goes to show how shallow the EV fanboi are in their thinking. Roads are made of oil, pharmaceuticals are made from oil, your laptop is made from oil, and 90% of the food in your supermarket is there as a direct result of oil based pesticides and natural gas fertilizers.

Peakoil spells the end of Suburbia, the end of 100 years of increasing prosperity for the world and EVidiots think we're going to spend the last major reserves building a Billion electric cars and millions of earth movers? These people need to see a psychiatrist.
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