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Get the Word Out: Peak Oil ALREADY HAPPENED

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Get the Word Out: Peak Oil ALREADY HAPPENED

Unread postby JohnDenver » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 22:20:32

ASPO (the Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas) is the pre-eminent world authority on peak oil, and is led by the world's top peak oil geologist, Colin Campbell.

In their most recent newsletter, ASPO went on the record stating that peak oil occurred in 2004 (link). So I think we need to get the word out, and get everybody on the same page. We don't need to talk anymore about when peak oil is going to happen, or waste time in any more discussions about what might happen to the world when PO occurs. We are already in the post-peak period, and need to start talking about peak oil in the past tense.

To this end, I think the "Event Countdown" feature on the front page needs to be revised to reflect the new facts. Deffeyes, WOCAP, ASPO and the USGS were all wrong. Peak oil already happened in 2004, so there is no longer any need to inform people of these erroneous forecasts.
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Re: Get the Word Out: Peak Oil ALREADY HAPPENED

Unread postby EnergySpin » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 22:42:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'A')SPO (the Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas) is the pre-eminent world authority on peak oil, and is led by the world's top peak oil geologist, Colin Campbell.

In their most recent newsletter, ASPO went on the record stating that peak oil occurred in 2004 (link). So I think we need to get the word out, and get everybody on the same page. We don't need to talk anymore about when peak oil is going to happen, or waste time in any more discussions about what might happen to the world when PO occurs. We are already in the post-peak period, and need to start talking about peak oil in the past tense.

To this end, I think the "Event Countdown" feature on the front page needs to be revised to reflect the new facts. Deffeyes, WOCAP, ASPO and the USGS were all wrong. Peak oil already happened in 2004, so there is no longer any need to inform people of these erroneous forecasts.

The problem is that the markets do not know this yet. When they find out, the economic hitmen will initiate the die-off process; and boy that's gonna be more effective than the die-off from GW or resource depletion [smilie=violent5.gif]
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Unread postby khebab » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 22:47:14

JD, do you know why it was revised downward, from 2006 to 2004?
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Unread postby Sparaxis » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 23:28:07

Nice tongue-in-cheek.

Peak liquids will be the turning point. Peak conventional just marks, finally and definitively, the end of cheap oil.

But I don't know why anyone here thinks there's some central database collecting production figures from every country and field around the world every day that we can make such calculations with decimal precision. For crissake, we count ships in the Persian Gulf to estimate ME OPEC production! I think it's going to be several years--post data-collection and post-data-revision, before such a claim can be made definitively.
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Unread postby Heineken » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 23:31:11

Since there is no way to be absolutely sure when PO happens, I use the gas price at the Exxon station in town as a proxy. When the price of the cheapest grade gets gets over, say, $3.50/gal and stays above it, I'll know it's time for panic mode. The price of gasoline per gallon in the United States is far more important than any other measure, and we're still a long way from $3.50, at least in this corner of Virginia.
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Unread postby MicroHydro » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 00:55:17

I told my friends and all the relatives I like. But I will not tell my hateful racist warmongering fundamentalist uncle, brother, or cousins. They will have to hear it from Jesus.
"The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
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Unread postby erl » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 01:32:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'I') told my friends and all the relatives I like. But I will not tell my hateful racist warmongering fundamentalist uncle, brother, or cousins. They will have to hear it from Jesus.


That's okay. Send me their email addresses.

I'll tell them.
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Unread postby Deleterius » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 01:42:00

And the Silence from God and Jesus since nearly two millenaries is quite sPEAKing for itself ..... Deal with ur mistakes alone
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Unread postby Doly » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 04:48:50

I did a thread in 2004 with the title "Has peak oil happened in 2004?" or something like that, based on the fact that the symptoms of economy were exactly the ones expected for peak oil. The vast majority disagreed and went with the official forecast.

I feel 8)
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Unread postby clv101 » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 05:25:07

JD, what do you expect to happen with a peak in conventional oil? The UK's oil extraction peaked in 1999 - nothing special happened here. The peak in conventional oil has been compensated for by growth in non-conventional oil. Regional peaks or global peaks of individual types of oil are not that significant in themselves.

The peak oil scenario kicks in when the peak of all-oil extraction occurs.
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Unread postby Antimatter » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 08:29:01

I'm willing to bet he (Campbell) will end up backpedaling.
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Unread postby JohnDenver » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 04:19:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clv101', 'J')D, what do you expect to happen with a peak in conventional oil?


Armageddon, TSHTF, the price of everything skyrocketing, mass unemployment, collapse of the fiat money system, die-off.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he UK's oil extraction peaked in 1999 - nothing special happened here.


Yes, and the US peaked in 1971. But this is a whole different ballgame because it's global peak oil. Conventional oil production, including Saudi Arabia and Ghawar, peaked in 2004. Think about it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he peak in conventional oil has been compensated for by growth in non-conventional oil.


The entire time I've been here, the doomers have been claiming that that's impossible. The doomer position was that non-conventional oil would not be able to fill the gap because it was too expensive and couldn't be built in time. They claimed it would be impossible even to maintain a plateau. And yet look what we have: "fluids" are not only compensating for the peak in conventional oil; they are allowing massive growth in spite of global peak oil.
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Unread postby JohnDenver » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 05:14:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sparaxis', 'P')eak liquids will be the turning point.


Well, in that case I suggest that we rename the site "peakliquids.com" and start calling ourselves "peak liquiders". When is peak liquid, by the way, considering that we are going to liquefy gas, coal, tar sands, oil shale, garbage, agricultural waste, palm oils, trees etc.?

What's the backdated discovery curve for "liquids" look like? Here's the one for oil:
Image

Compare that with the version in the latest ASPO newsletter. It's the same graph, but now it says "Regular Oil". Campbell knows he screwed up, and he's trying to cover his tracks. That's why he abruptly (and with no explanation) started to use natural gas in his oil curve. He has to weasel his way from peak oiler to peak liquider.

Also, as peak liquiders, shouldn't we be concerning ourselves with liquid reserves, and not oil reserves? What are our total liquid reserves? Considering that we can liquefy coal, are coal reserves liquid reserves? I don't see why not. If coal is economically and technically liquefiable (as it appears to be right now), then coal reserves are proven liquid reserves. Bing! We just discovered a massive new liquid reserve, and we didn't even go looking. Didn't have to drill even one dry hole. Liquids are fun. You can do all kinds of funky things with liquid reserves that you can't do with oil reserves.

I'm pleased to say that I have been totally vindicated. Peak oil was EXACTLY LIKE Y2K. It came and went in 2004, and everybody snoozed right through it.

Peak liquid, on the other hand, is going to be harsh, but who knows when that's going be. 2020? 2030? 2040?
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Unread postby clv101 » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 06:04:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clv101', 'J')D, what do you expect to happen with a peak in conventional oil?


Armageddon, TSHTF, the price of everything skyrocketing, mass unemployment, collapse of the fiat money system, die-off.


No, that happens with peak oil not peak conventional oil. Peak conventional oil depends on you definition of conventional oil. Campbell’s definition of conventional oil is quite specific. I have a presentation which I won't be able to refer to 'til Monday with the definitions but non-conventional oil from coal and shale, bitumen and derived synthetics, heavy and extra-heavy oil, deep-water oil, polar oil and liquids from gas fields and gas plants is what accounts for the difference between he 2004 conventional and 2007 all oil peak. The deep water and heavy (which really isn't very deep or heavy by Campbell’s definition) oil is making up the balance today.
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Unread postby Licho » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 09:15:06

Last year OPEC released statement, that it's producing at capacity and cannot increase production any more - I greeted it with "we peaked" style posts in these forums back then..
It still seems to me, that this might well have been a peak of oil, and we are living in post-peak "apocalypse" almost one year.
Price of oil is high, but somehow, predictions about rapid collapse, dieoff or economic crash didnt turn reality..
(Gas is now more expensive in dollars than few years ago, but not in euros :-)
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Unread postby Doly » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 09:31:21

Like I always said, it's soft landing. But not quite a non-event. It will get worse.
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Unread postby Permanently_Baffled » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 09:39:37

Lets not get premature and tempt fate here guys! Oil production hasn't started to decline yet (we are on a plateau). This is when we will find out how messy it will get !
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Unread postby khebab » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 10:51:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Licho', 'L')ast year OPEC released statement, that it's producing at capacity and cannot increase production any more - I greeted it with "we peaked" style posts in these forums back then..
It still seems to me, that this might well have been a peak of oil, and we are living in post-peak "apocalypse" almost one year.
Price of oil is high, but somehow, predictions about rapid collapse, dieoff or economic crash didnt turn reality..
(Gas is now more expensive in dollars than few years ago, but not in euros :-)

Conventional oil production has probably peaked last year but non conventional oil is probably filling the gap. How long it will last, that's the question. Demand is still strong and will keep growing. Inventories are still quite high (maybe no as high as they were 15 years ago) and will shield the economy from short supply disruptions. Problems won't happen overnight but over decades.
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