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Medicaid Costs Explode

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Medicaid Costs Explode

Unread postby Leanan » Tue 02 Aug 2005, 09:59:15

The top story at USA Today right now:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... caid_x.htm

The number of people on Medicaid (the federal program that offers health insurance for the poor) has exploded. The costs could prove crippling.

It was a sort of unexpected result of welfare reform in the '90s. People were forced off the welfare rolls, into minimum wage jobs with no health coverage. So states were more or less forced to start covering the "working poor," not just welfare recipients. Now, employers such as Wal-Mart and McDonald's are using Medicaid instead of offering health insurance to their employees. Hey, it's free, and it covers more.

It's "the biggest expansion of a government entitlement since the Great Society was launched in the 1960s" - and it happened with a conservative President in the White House, and conservative Republicans in charge of both the Senate and the House.

This is why I think peak oil will mean more government, at least in the short term. When push comes to shove, people believe it's the government's job to protect and provide for those who need it. And even the most conservative politicians have a tough time refusing. Even when it means red ink as far as the eye can see.
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Unread postby RonMN » Tue 02 Aug 2005, 10:48:05

In the short term it probably WILL mean more gov't...taxes will go way up, they will absorb our personal retirement accounts (IRA) to put into social security...all workers become "working poor"...there will be a revolt & the entire system implodes.

IMHO anyway.

Have a nice day! :)
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Unread postby Pfish » Tue 02 Aug 2005, 11:41:24

Today's medical system is not about the doctor and patient. It is a jobs program.
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Unread postby EnemyCombatant » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 00:11:03

Make you wonder why SS reform was the priority.

During a Congressional hearing Alan Greenspan had no answer for this question.
Now why didn't I take the blue pill.
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Unread postby EnergySpin » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 00:32:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnemyCombatant', 'M')ake you wonder why SS reform was the priority.

During a Congressional hearing Alan Greenspan had no answer for this question.

Big Pharmas were defrauding the medicare/medicaid program AND the patients $1billion per year (at least) for many many years with the AWP drug price scheme.
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Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 15:39:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', 'I')n the short term it probably WILL mean more gov't...taxes will go way up, they will absorb our personal retirement accounts (IRA) to put into social security...all workers become "working poor"...there will be a revolt & the entire system implodes.

IMHO anyway.

Have a nice day! :)


And the working poor will create a new society based on sharing and the Brotherhood of Man. In this new classless dictatorship of the Proletariat all men and women will be equal and free. And everyone will have enough if they work. And everyone gets free ice cream and free t-shirts and free health care and free food and free housing, and, and, and...

:roll:

"Bleeding hearts and begging hands will only cry out for more"

I think Medicare/Medicaid will eventaully bankrupt the government. It is impossible to raise revenue if you crash the economy with higher taxes, look at the Great Depression. Despite doubling (and eventually tripling) tax rates, revenue could not come close to matching the increased expenses of welfare.
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Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 16:05:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')"Bleeding hearts and begging hands will only cry out for more"


Some of the blame falls at the feet of the corporations. Granted, by doing nothing, they certainly aren't failing to attract customers or employees. But then, being unemployed, no matter how low the pay is, isn't a very viable alternative, either. So, that leaves us with a multitude of choices, four of which I can propose:

1) Raise the minimum wage. Of course, the insurance/pharma industry will immediately eat this increase up.

2) Reform medical/pharma/insurance industry. Nice libertarian thought, remove regulation, start allowing "2-year associate degree" or "GED" M.D.s and the like, hopefully lowering medical costs. I don't see it happening.

3) Let the workers bleed to death. This (sort of) hurts morale and eliminates much of the workforce for Wal-Mart and McDonalds, freeing up their floor space for more self check-outs/cashiers. This once again frees up millions from those pesky "jobs with no future" and dumps them at the altar of free-market globalism. Rejoice!

OR....

4) Have the government charge the corporations, whose workers are on the Medicare/Medicaid rolls, for medical care provided by the state. This hopefully forces corporations to offer medical care at affordable prices to their employees, while lessening or eliminating the burden on the taxpayers. However, this might accidentally cut into the bottom line of those corporations, who already aren't doing so well. Perhaps you've heard of poor Wal-Mart... :roll:
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Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 16:12:19

I support all of your 4 suggestions.

The minimum wage has been stuck at $5.15 an hour since 1997.

Inflation has eaten away a large chunk of that since then.

Thus, increase the minimum wage to a level that allow people the same purchasing power as they had in 1997 and keep raising the wage along with inflation to keep it's relative level the same.

I think the new minimum wage would be around $7.25 an hour for this year.
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Unread postby hotsacks » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 16:14:37

You're absolutely right Tyler.I don't know why I never saw it before,it makes so much sense! Kill the poor so our taxes don't go up!
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Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 16:16:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') support all of your 4 suggestions.


I appreciate that (except for #3) :twisted: . I'd really like to suggest an overhaul of both the medical and insurance industries, coupled with "sending the bill" for indigent care to corporations. Sounds too complicated for those inside the Beltway (and their lobbyists), though...
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Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 03 Aug 2005, 16:30:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hotsacks', 'Y')ou're absolutely right Tyler.I don't know why I never saw it before,it makes so much sense! Kill the poor so our taxes don't go up!


When did I say anything even close to that??? :?
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Unread postby ubercrap » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 20:36:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', 'I')n the short term it probably WILL mean more gov't...taxes will go way up, they will absorb our personal retirement accounts (IRA) to put into social security...all workers become "working poor"...there will be a revolt & the entire system implodes.

IMHO anyway.

Have a nice day! :)


And the working poor will create a new society based on sharing and the Brotherhood of Man. In this new classless dictatorship of the Proletariat all men and women will be equal and free. And everyone will have enough if they work. And everyone gets free ice cream and free t-shirts and free health care and free food and free housing, and, and, and...

:roll:

"Bleeding hearts and begging hands will only cry out for more"

I think Medicare/Medicaid will eventaully bankrupt the government. It is impossible to raise revenue if you crash the economy with higher taxes, look at the Great Depression. Despite doubling (and eventually tripling) tax rates, revenue could not come close to matching the increased expenses of welfare.


I see no historical connection between high income taxes and the economy doing poorly. Look at how much the richest Americans were still taxed just after World War II and get back to me.
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Unread postby ubercrap » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 20:52:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hotsacks', 'Y')ou're absolutely right Tyler.I don't know why I never saw it before,it makes so much sense! Kill the poor so our taxes don't go up!


When did I say anything even close to that??? :?


Don't be coy, you're only one tiny notch away from insinuating that. It's fine, I just hope you're a real oldschool hardline conservative, not one of those fucking neocon/faux christians that seem to be popping up like like weeds in a dirt driveway as of late.
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Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 23:29:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') see no historical connection between high income taxes and the economy doing poorly. Look at how much the richest Americans were still taxed just after World War II and get back to me.


Look at the number of exemptions the rich had back then!

A 75% tax rate doesn't mean much when you can use crafty accounting to pay less than 10% at the end of the day.

Well the government changed all that with the AMT.

When it was reported that a few corporate fat cats got away with paying no income tax, government stepped in and "fixed" the problem. Now high income Americans are unable to use some of the more basic tax deductions in order to reduce their tax burden. This leads to a much higher real tax rate.

However, because the AMT is not inflation-adjusted, middle class Americans in mostly blue states are beginning to feel the pinch. But I'm starting to change the subject.

Here's a list of things that might push a person into having to pay the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT).
http://www.fairmark.com/amt/topten.htm

So yeah, the rich are still paying relatively high taxes compared to the 50's. And if you raise taxes in order to pay for trillions in new social spending, it will crash the economy as capital vanishes from investment and instead goes to welfare programs (with the bureaucrats taking a slice in between :twisted: ).

*My parents are both accountants...one picks up some useful information after having to listen to them talk to each other about business over the dinner table for years and years and years... :)
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Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 04 Aug 2005, 23:36:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercrap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hotsacks', 'Y')ou're absolutely right Tyler.I don't know why I never saw it before,it makes so much sense! Kill the poor so our taxes don't go up!


When did I say anything even close to that??? :?


Don't be coy, you're only one tiny notch away from insinuating that. It's fine, I just hope you're a real oldschool hardline conservative, not one of those fucking neocon/faux christians that seem to be popping up like like weeds in a dirt driveway as of late.


I'm more of the Classical Liberal type than anything else.

That means less overall government meddling and fewer "benefits".

It doesn't do the poor any good to crash the economy and create another 50 million of them.

Now we can prioritize the budget and reduce the deficit without having to kick anyone out on to the street.

I suggest eliminating parts of our nuclear weapons programs. We have the power to destroy the world 20 times over, isn't that enough? :evil:

May I also suggest reducing farm subsidies? Do we really need to encourage Arizona farmers to grow cotton while discouraging Alabama's farmers from doing the same thing? :roll:
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Unread postby jato » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 08:39:36

Alan is going to have another migraine.

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Medicaid cuts in Missouri

Unread postby PhebaAndThePilgrim » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 12:55:53

Good morning from Pheba:
I live in Missouri. Our republican governor, Matt Blunt has passed massive Medicaid cuts. I volunteer at a food bank. I talk to people on Medicaid, and the cuts have been staggering.
Some will be losing Medicaid and have no way to survive.
Some who have motorized wheelchairs can keep the wheelchairs, but will no longer have the batteries paid for.
Some have been asked to surrender oxygen tanks used for breathing problems.
One lady in a large city near by was asked to surrender her total support wheelchair. She is a quadriplegic, and needs the chair to survive. She told Matt Blunt that he would have to come and physically remove her from the chair.
Bedsore care in nursing homes will no longer be covered by Medicaid,
but Viagra for prison inmates will still be covered, and that includes sex offenders. (I am not making this up. Was all over the news!!)
Personally, I believe that all of this is directly connected to the peak oil issue.
No, let me change that. I feel that all of the above is directly connected to the peak oil issue.
I am not very good at orating what I deeply feel. Much easier to orate what I believe.
Would appreciate others thoughts on this.
Sometimes what I feel ends up being more correct than what I know.
Pheba from the farm.

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Unread postby EnemyCombatant » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 14:12:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')I suggest eliminating parts of our nuclear weapons programs. We have the power to destroy the world 20 times over, isn't that enough? :evil:



Are you suggesting we get rid of corporate welfare. You see, we spend billions more on corporate welfare than social welfare.

It's funny how so-called conservatives take no issue with this, yet they don't want to throw a dog a bone.

Reagan gave tax breaks to the rich. While me and my family became homeless because he cut off the SS benefits I was receiving in lieu of my dead father.

The money never trickled down. I just got trickled on.
Now why didn't I take the blue pill.
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Unread postby EnemyCombatant » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 14:16:09

Pheba, I have been following this closely for the past few years. I completely empathize with these people.

I grew up near 8 mile in Detroit. I know what it's like to be poor.

We are spending how many billions in Iraq, yet we won't invest in our schools. Our children. Our future.

Iraq is corporate welfare for Halliburton. They don't do the work AND they get bonuses. There is no outrage over that. Yet people can't get medical care.

Prison inmates and sex offenders get Viagra because again, it's corporate welfare for the pharmaceutical industry.


Wilhelm Reich was right.
Now why didn't I take the blue pill.
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Unread postby Tyler_JC » Fri 05 Aug 2005, 14:30:10

From a PO point of view, you can't expect government to take care of you for years on end.

Frankly, those who cannot support themselves without tens of thousands of dollars in free medical care should dieoff.

It's the nature of things. We don't like doing it because we generally hate to see our fellow humans suffer. But it is not sustainable to have an entire class of people dependent on handouts from everyone else.

We shouldn't be funding organ transplants for prisoners or free oxygen tanks for smokers.

It's sad (at least for the sympathetic crowd) but you can't deny the laws of nature for your own emotional whims. The Romantics need a reality slap. We just can't afford to keep all of these people alive.

In 20 years, the US Federal Government will be utterly broke. Social spending will be a big reason for that.

It would be nice to take care of everyone and make sure everyone lives a decent standard of living but it's simply not possible. Population/resources is coming out to a number larger than 1.

Clearly the people who say the huddled masses have a right to billions in free stuff don't understand the population reduction plan.

Some people will have to dieoff in order to make room for everyone else. Otherwise everyone will suffer.

So I would vote for the complete dissolution of Medicaid.

As a sidenote, where is the moral justification for robbing Peter to pay Paul? But's that's a rather irrelevant point based on the economic realities of the future.

But we might be able to buy a few more years of public health care by cutting out the rampant waste in government. But only a few years...
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