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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Postby EnergySpin » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 01:21:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')dditionally 2 of my adjoining neighbors are EMT's, the guy across the street if a policeman, the guy beside him a firefighter, end of the street is the Sheriff I believe, up the road a little ways are 2, maybe 3 State Patrolmen.

That's quite an impressive firepower you have there Spec 8O
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Postby Specop_007 » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 01:30:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')dditionally 2 of my adjoining neighbors are EMT's, the guy across the street if a policeman, the guy beside him a firefighter, end of the street is the Sheriff I believe, up the road a little ways are 2, maybe 3 State Patrolmen.

That's quite an impressive firepower you have there Spec 8O


Yeah, I'd bet I'm probably the only guy out of the bunch with a AR15.
Guy behind me is military, currently deployed.
Point is, I have enough "People" in my subdivision that if worse comes to worse we could band together and I think (hope) do pretty well.
Last edited by Specop_007 on Sun 31 Jul 2005, 02:25:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jato » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 02:23:29

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From the backyard looking south. Everything is green in the spring.



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Home sweet home.
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Postby MisterJoe » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 02:25:14

suburbia of the world (not the western one)

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Postby Specop_007 » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 02:27:43

Jato,
Man. California has some of the most beautiful country. Too bad the libs have taken over and turned in into such a Socialist mess. :(

MisterJoe,
You live where you choose. If thats what they want then so be it.
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Postby MisterJoe » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 02:35:56

I am sure they love to live like that?

wouldn't you??
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Postby Specop_007 » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 02:41:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MisterJoe', 'I') am sure they love to live like that?

wouldn't you??


I have to assume so as they take NO action to change it.
I mean shit, at the *very* least they could walk around and pick up the trash right? I mean please tell me these hard working, intelligent individuals arent so busy stuck in the office all day they dont have time to go pick up the bottles. That would be a shame to think those highly successful people are so busy at work they cant even spend a few hours doing a community cleanup project!
Wow! They must be REALLY HARD WORKERS! :roll:
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Postby jato » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 02:44:47

Yes the 3rd worlders are pouring in, taking over and deconstructing the USA.

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10 miles away.

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Postby pea-jay » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 06:57:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', 'I') wonder if anyone has quantified which form of suburbia consumes more energy, both in construction and in everyday existance.

I got a gut suspicion that the Singapore version takes more energy to construct, but the US model takes more to maintain (transportation).

Both are ultimately flawed though

Singapore is going to be cheaper on both fronts.The apartments are smaller, to begin with, can be serviced by fewer shops, mass transit can be built around them (obviating the need for cars). I'm not so sure why you think they are flawed (depends on your definition of "flaw"). Higher density development makes more efficient use of the land, lessening our impact on the environment


I don't disagree on the fundementals of your arguement. The flaw I am refering to is excessive density--the density that requires excessive amounts of energy to mitigate. Beyond the fourth or fifth floor, life becomes difficult due to the distance above the ground.

I post on this subject on my blog not too long ago.

Is this sustainable in the future?
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http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6004 ... 002071.JPG

I think not.

And when I was refering to costs, I was refering to energetic, not economic. The energetic cost constructing a 500 unit concrete and steel tower HAS to be greater than 500 stick frame single family houses plopped down on a concrete pad in the midwest.

Concrete, if you are not aware, is a huge consumer of energy (and I might add, a huge source of greenhouse gasses). Steel production is no slacker in the energy department either.
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Postby Specop_007 » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 07:01:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', 'I') wonder if anyone has quantified which form of suburbia consumes more energy, both in construction and in everyday existance.

I got a gut suspicion that the Singapore version takes more energy to construct, but the US model takes more to maintain (transportation).

Both are ultimately flawed though

Singapore is going to be cheaper on both fronts.The apartments are smaller, to begin with, can be serviced by fewer shops, mass transit can be built around them (obviating the need for cars). I'm not so sure why you think they are flawed (depends on your definition of "flaw"). Higher density development makes more efficient use of the land, lessening our impact on the environment


I don't disagree on the fundementals of your arguement. The flaw I am refering to is excessive density--the density that requires excessive amounts of energy to mitigate. Beyond the fourth or fifth floor, life becomes difficult due to the distance above the ground.

I post on this subject on my blog not too long ago.

Is this sustainable in the future?
Image
I think not.

And when I was refering to costs, I was refering to energetic, not economic. The energetic cost constructing a 500 unit concrete and steel tower HAS to be greater than 500 stick frame single family houses plopped down on a concrete pad in the midwest.

Concrete, if you are not aware, is a huge consumer of energy (and I might add, a huge source of greenhouse gasses). Steel production is no slacker in the energy department either.


Not only that but look at it from a self sufficient perspective.
In an apartment complex of any degree you simply dont have enough land to feed the number of people in the complex.
In a spread out subdivision such as what we have we have alot more land available to use. Look at all the yards in that picture I posted. Its a spade, hoe and hard days work away from being large gardens.
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Postby lotrfan55345 » Sun 31 Jul 2005, 14:37:30

Rainforest/Suburbs/Downtown of Manila, Phillippines:
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Endless Suburbs of Manila:
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Suburbs-to-downtown of Manila:
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It's BEYOND me how Manila came to had US-style sprawl and suburbs. :(
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Postby pea-jay » Mon 01 Aug 2005, 03:01:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's BEYOND me how Manila came to had US-style sprawl and suburbs


Simple: US influence. Damn powerful stuff we peddle.

In anycase, I am well acquainted with Manila along with most of Luzon. It's amazing to see the sprawl of urbanization and further out, suburbanization in a country that is woefully lacking in basic infrastructure capacity. Most US sprawl did not even occur until some kind of improved road access was constructed. Not so there.

Another interesting thing is the proliferation off walled off private neighborhoods. They were something else to visit. Whole sections of the city stuck behind 15 or 20 foot walls, protected by armed guards. They were a piece of the first world plopped down in the midst of poverty. With all of those private streets, especially in Makati where alot of these are, you have all that traffic jammed up onto the major thoroughfares.

I remember when my parents still lived there. It was always hot and traffic took for ever. I remember one trip we made from Makati to the airport to pick up my aunt took 2 hours...and the total distance we traveled was 4 miles. Thats less than walking speed.

Trips from the house to my sister's school were also an ordeal.

As bad as this was...
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Thai traffic is far worse.
Thai's have a higher rate of car ownership than Filipinos do
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Count'em. That's NINE lanes of stop and go misery. Not to mention a great use of natural resources as well.
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Postby Keith_McClary » Mon 01 Aug 2005, 04:11:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MisterJoe', 'I') am sure they love to live like that?

wouldn't you??


I have to assume so as they take NO action to change it.
I mean shit, at the *very* least they could walk around and pick up the trash right? I mean please tell me these hard working, intelligent individuals arent so busy stuck in the office all day they dont have time to go pick up the bottles. That would be a shame to think those highly successful people are so busy at work they cant even spend a few hours doing a community cleanup project!
Wow! They must be REALLY HARD WORKERS! :roll:

So, do you spend your weekends picking up beer cans and hub caps from your beautiful freeways and McTrash and condoms and needles from your parks?
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Postby Keith_McClary » Mon 01 Aug 2005, 04:59:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's BEYOND me how Manila came to had US-style sprawl and suburbs


Simple: US influence. Damn powerful stuff we peddle.
I think you missed lotrfan55345's sarcasm :lol: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', '
')Thai traffic is far worse.
Thai's have a higher rate of car ownership than Filipinos do
Image

Count'em. That's NINE lanes of stop and go misery. Not to mention a great use of natural resources as well.
Well, at least Thai drivers are orderly. In Italy (flamebait alert) that would be 12 lanes of chaos. :P
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Postby Specop_007 » Mon 01 Aug 2005, 11:08:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MisterJoe', 'I') am sure they love to live like that?

wouldn't you??


I have to assume so as they take NO action to change it.
I mean shit, at the *very* least they could walk around and pick up the trash right? I mean please tell me these hard working, intelligent individuals arent so busy stuck in the office all day they dont have time to go pick up the bottles. That would be a shame to think those highly successful people are so busy at work they cant even spend a few hours doing a community cleanup project!
Wow! They must be REALLY HARD WORKERS! :roll:

So, do you spend your weekends picking up beer cans and hub caps from your beautiful freeways and McTrash and condoms and needles from your parks?


Why should I? We dont have that problem. I'll try to sneek out next week and snap a few park pics. Busy this week.
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Postby Specop_007 » Mon 01 Aug 2005, 11:13:03

Never mind. I have a few pics of parks and stuff. Here you go

Old apartment complex (Before we moved)

Park

Park

Park

Park

Park

Your right. I really should get out and pick up all those bottles, needles, cans, papers and other trash littering our area. :roll:

The funny thing is? We keep our parks nicer then those other people keep their front lawn! Well....the front whatever it is.
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Postby lowem » Mon 01 Aug 2005, 11:37:05

Nice park, specop, nice ducks too :)
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Postby lowem » Mon 01 Aug 2005, 11:45:17

... oh, and the Japs want to replace their suburbia with this, err, *thing* :

Image

You might have seen this one on Discovery's Extreme Engineering a while back. This thing, the Tokyo Sky City, they call it, if they really do decide to try to build it, is supposed to eat up an entire steel mill's output for 12 years - or 12 steel mills' output (from around the world, I'd guess) for one year. And it'll weigh 6 million tons.

Finally, something that could match the weight of the legendary Robotech SDF-1 ... :lol:

(Did a lot of urban planners play Sim City and all started coming up with this gigantic arcology idea?)

While, on another episode in the same series, they mentioned that the German Autobahn costs a whopping $900,000 (USD-equivalent) per mile to maintain, annually!! No speed limits, babe!
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Postby Specop_007 » Mon 01 Aug 2005, 12:20:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', 'N')ice park, specop, nice ducks too :)


Its a great park, I really enjoy it.
I had a hell of a time getting pics of the ducks. Had the kids with me. They had a great time, but Dad was stressed to the limit watching 2 kids around a big pond. Theres LOTS of ducks there, the 4 year old would take off and chase the ducks, the 2 year old would walk up to the very edge of the water and try to splash her hand in it.
So I was tryin to watch the 2 Y/O to make sure she didnt fall in, watch the 4 Y/O to make sure he didnt fall in all the while as ducks are goin everywhere and the 4 Y/O is running away.
Fun, but stressful. :)
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