[dohboi]

T. Roosevelt on Blacks: “as a race and in the mass they are altogether inferior to whites”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political ... _Roosevelt

And I assume you are talking about the decision of the Museum of Natural History in NYC. A museum can decide to place whatever of it's statues and exhibits wherever it likes for whatever reason. This was not 'those people' who 'didn't know their history' going after a TR statue with jackhammers! I have a vague notion that the folks at the freakin' Museum of Natural HISTORY know just a smidgen more about history than all of us put together!

Sometime you guys really are ridiculous!!

And by the way, the statue in question "explicitly depicts black and indigenous people as subjugated and racially inferior"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -roosevelt

Some people seem to be more exercised about statues than about actual people and their rights. Just sayin'.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'A') lot of people seeing Trump decline in the polls will not risk demonstrating now with Covid as they prefer to just wait him out. This pulling statues down is getting out of hand with statues of Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt being targeted. The vandals are not students of history. If they were they would know that TR got into political trouble for having Booker T. Washington (a black man) come to a White house dinner in 1901. The uproar kept that from happening again for thirty years.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'T'). Roosevelt on Blacks: “as a race and in the mass they are altogether inferior to whites”

.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'A') lot of people seeing Trump decline in the polls will not risk demonstrating now with Covid as they prefer to just wait him out. This pulling statues down is getting out of hand with statues of Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt being targeted. The vandals are not students of history. If they were they would know that TR got into political trouble for having Booker T. Washington (a black man) come to a White house dinner in 1901. The uproar kept that from happening again for thirty years.

[dohboi]

To be clear, we are primarily talking about a particular statue, not a man.

Did you even look at this particular statue that you seem to be so protective of?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'T')o be clear, we are primarily talking about a particular statue, not a man.

Did you even look at this particular statue that you seem to be so protective of?

[dohboi]

Well, that's your subjective opinion.

Here's another one, by an actual Roosevelt family member:

'I think it gives the wrong message'

https://6abc.com/society/roosevelts-fam ... l/6260380/

And here's a bit more info, for all you self professed champions of history out there!

https://6abc.com/society/roosevelts-fam ... l/6260380/

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Roosevelt developed an attitude toward Native Americans that can fairly be described as genocidal. In an 1886 speech in New York, he declared:

I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indian is the dead Indian, but I believe nine out of every ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian. Take three hundred low families of New York and New Jersey, support them, for fifty years, in vicious idleness, and you will have some idea of what the Indians are. Reckless, revengeful, fiendishly cruel.

That same year Roosevelt published a book in which he wrote that “the so-called Chivington or Sandy [sic] Creek Massacre, in spite of certain most objectionable details, was on the whole as righteous and beneficial a deed as ever took place on the frontier.”

The Sand Creek massacre had occurred 22 years previously in the Colorado Territory, wiping out a village of over 100 Cheyenne and Arapaho people. It was in every way comparable to the My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War. Nelson A. Miles, an officer who eventually became the Army’s top general, wrote in his memoirs that it was “perhaps the foulest and most unjustifiable crime in the annals of America.”

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'W')ell, that's your subjective opinion.

Here's another one, by an actual Roosevelt family member:

'I think it gives the wrong message'

https://6abc.com/society/roosevelts-fam ... l/6260380/

And here's a bit more info, for all you self professed champions of history out there!

https://6abc.com/society/roosevelts-fam ... l/6260380/

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Roosevelt developed an attitude toward Native Americans that can fairly be described as genocidal. In an 1886 speech in New York, he declared:

I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indian is the dead Indian, but I believe nine out of every ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian. Take three hundred low families of New York and New Jersey, support them, for fifty years, in vicious idleness, and you will have some idea of what the Indians are. Reckless, revengeful, fiendishly cruel.

That same year Roosevelt published a book in which he wrote that “the so-called Chivington or Sandy [sic] Creek Massacre, in spite of certain most objectionable details, was on the whole as righteous and beneficial a deed as ever took place on the frontier.”

The Sand Creek massacre had occurred 22 years previously in the Colorado Territory, wiping out a village of over 100 Cheyenne and Arapaho people. It was in every way comparable to the My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War. Nelson A. Miles, an officer who eventually became the Army’s top general, wrote in his memoirs that it was “perhaps the foulest and most unjustifiable crime in the annals of America.”

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'A') lot of people seeing Trump decline in the polls will not risk demonstrating now with Covid as they prefer to just wait him out. This pulling statues down is getting out of hand with statues of Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt being targeted. The vandals are not students of history. If they were they would know that TR got into political trouble for having Booker T. Washington (a black man) come to a White house dinner in 1901. The uproar kept that from happening again for thirty years.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'A') lot of people seeing Trump decline in the polls will not risk demonstrating now with Covid as they prefer to just wait him out. This pulling statues down is getting out of hand with statues of Jefferson and Teddy Roosevelt being targeted. The vandals are not students of history. If they were they would know that TR got into political trouble for having Booker T. Washington (a black man) come to a White house dinner in 1901. The uproar kept that from happening again for thirty years.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')So don't actually CHECK on anything racist Teddy Roosevelt said, or make any counterclaim based on fact or anything. Just state you don't "think" I have any evidence.

Well, here's an example:

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019/03 ... -100-years

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Theodore Roosevelt was an environmentalist and progressive social reformer who laid the groundwork for the modern Democratic party. But he was also an advocate for white nationalism and eugenics.

[dohboi]

I wonder if the mods might split off the whole statue issue as a separate thread.

Getting into details of TR's life get pretty far from current issues of police brutality (although, of course, nearly everything is connected in some way...but then why bother with separate threads at all?)

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')So don't actually CHECK on anything racist Teddy Roosevelt said, or make any counterclaim based on fact or anything. Just state you don't "think" I have any evidence.

Well, here's an example:

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019/03 ... -100-years

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Theodore Roosevelt was an environmentalist and progressive social reformer who laid the groundwork for the modern Democratic party. But he was also an advocate for white nationalism and eugenics.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')Speaking of cherry picking, make a spurious argument. Don't of course, acknowledge the clear racism.

[dohboi]

Not all who graduated from Harvard in the second half of the last century were whit supramicists.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he first black degree recipients were: Edwin C. J. Howard (Medicine), George L. Ruffin (Law), Robert T. Freeman (Dental) all in 1869. Ruffin and Freeman were the first blacks awarded their respective degrees in the country.

The first Harvard College A.B. was awarded to Richard T. Greener in 1870. He went on to become a philosophy professor, law school dean and foreign diplomat.

[dohboi]

But again, and again, and again...

What is being discussed here is statue more than a man.

vt has stated that he does not find it offensive. Presumably, vt would not find all sorts of racially charged language to be offensive. Does that mean that those terms should be deemed generally non-offensive?

Just as Black and American Indians find much language to be offensive, and what vt does or does not say about that is essentially irrelevant to the issue; so here, it matters not one wit whether vt finds the statue offensive.

Lost and lots of Blacks and Native Americans have. They have much, much more of a right to say what is offensive to them than vt and his ilk does.

Again, all this statue stuff should really be split off, but perhaps our wonderful mods are all visiting the land of the lotus eaters and cannot be bothered?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus-eaters

[vtsnowedin]

OK so in a few years I can take my granddaughter to MLK city (formally Washington D.C) and drive down Schumer avenue to Pelosi plaza and at the Uber parking lot I can tell her that a marble monument and some statues used to be there commemorating the people that wrested this country from the hands of the British monarchy and gave us a Republic which had stood for over two hundred years but now is in ruins controlled by the Chinese.

[dohboi]

Don't see why not. We have Ronald Reagan Airport, for f sake, naked after the guy who was mostly famous for 'sleepwalking through history.' (That might be a more fitting title for this thread, given the attitudes of some!)

But it sounds like you will then be able to take her inside museum to show where a statue was relocated to, where it will give the historical context both of why the statue was made and erected, and why judicious, thoughtful people decided to move it to an area where its history could be more fully explained and contextualized.

Who knows, your granddaughter might end up understanding history from this experience better than her old gramps appears to!

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'j')udicious, thoughtful people

[dissident]

Teddy Roosevelt and Stevie Ray Vaughan were not racists and were not associated with racism. But the D. Party was a bastion of pure racism into the 1960s. Roosevelt was perennially attacked by the D. Party for having a black man over for dinner at the White House.

But these Trotskyist BLM maggots are using the formula: white = racist. Thereby establishing their own racist credentials.