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Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

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Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Kylon » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:05:00

I was thinking, that since the Earth's Geomagnetic poles are reversing, and they're the only things protecting us from solar winds, and strong solar winds can cause electromagnetic pulses, that as the Geomagnetic poles become weaker and weaker, and our planetary shield is removed, that frequent electromagnetic pulses may become the norm.

If that's the case, then unshielded electronics and powerlines could become virtually useless. The only solution I can think of currently for such a problem would be to shield all of the electronics with lead and iron.

What do you think?
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Madpaddy » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:08:00

I think that if you're right, "that the hits just keep on coming".
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Kylon » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:10:27

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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:16:05

Sounds apocalyptic enough, but do these pole reversals happen on a timeline that's relevant to h.sapiens?

In other words, any number of disasters have the potential to be our downfall between now and such an event.
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Lore » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:20:44

If the electromagnetic poles are somehow reduced in intensity there is also the danger that solar winds will chip away the atmosphere. This is one of the hypothesis that scientist have considered for the loss of atmosphere on Mars.

Then again I've heard, if there were a sudden reversal in pole polarity, it would cause your head and ass to simultaneously cave in to meet somewhere about mid-abdomen! :lol:
Last edited by Lore on Thu 07 Jun 2007, 19:49:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:25:36

We're talking about a change that will happen in tens of thousands of years, not the next couple decades.

We've survived several of these things before without succumbing to cancer and global dieoff.

Moreover, what makes you think we wouldn't notice that the poles were weakening to the point where our electronics might be in danger and spend a few centuries hardening the hard drives?

I thought we already established that peak oil was going to wipe out all of industrial civilization in the next decade, rendering our entire collection of electronic goodies worthless anyway?

So who cares about someone's laptop in the year 22,007 when the poles reverse and the cosmic waves fry it?

Problem solved.:-D
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Kylon » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:36:23

Hope your right about poles not reversing. One more disaster off my chest if you are.
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Kylon » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:44:31

thanks ferrel giraffe.

:)
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:48:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ferrelgiraffe', 'T')his is probably the best dang web site in the world and the people here are bhonest and open, Nothing excapes being ripped appart here.

Aaron should clalll it Occams Raozor and Peak Oil

any theory needs testing come here.

when 80 percent of us agree on it it is basically FACT>
:)
We are not paid shills for any oil drilling university so you can trus tit, (though there are a few shills who refuse to accept facts)
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Can you say, groupthink?

If 80% of the America believes in angels, that doesn't automatically prove their existence.

Most of the people on this site (or any website for that matter) have little in the way of professional training in the fields of geology, petroleum engineering, economics or political science. Few people on this site have even read Hubbert's 1956 paper, the Hirsch Report, etc.

They just read a few heavily biased websites (LATOC, anyone?) and come to the conclusion that the sky is falling.

Same reason this pole reversal theory exists.

Without looking into the data ourselves, we come to rather radical conclusions based on what we're told. I thought the Peak Oil Mantra included a highly skeptical view of everything intangible?
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby steam_cannon » Thu 07 Jun 2007, 18:53:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'S')ounds apocalyptic enough, but do these pole reversals happen on a timeline that's relevant to h.sapiens?
No. But it is an interesting question I decided to read more about the subject after a particularly dumb movie called the core. :roll:

I don't feel like looking up links for people today, but here is what I remember.
1. Pole reversals take a long time.
2. NASA ran some simulations on atmospheric radiation penetration if the Earths magnetic field weakened, more of the upper atmosphere would ionize and act like the Earths magnetic field deflecting radiation. Quite elegant. In half a billion years the atmosphere would blow away, but reversals only take a few hundred to a thousand years...

So really nothing to worry about, but if you want to pretend it is something to worry about, watch the movie "The Core", It's so stupid it's funny :lol:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The Core', 'S')oon after pigeons in London's Trafalgar Square lose their internal navigational ability and collide with stationary objects. Keyes realizes the cause of these anomalies: The earth's core has stopped rotating. Within a year, the Earth will lose its electromagnetic shield and be incinerated by solar radiation."

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('movie review', 'a')n unbelievably preposterous, but enjoyable thrill ride... the destruction of the Roman Colosseum and the Golden Gate bridge are not examples of CGI-work at its best, to put it kindly...

My favorite thing about the movie is how their core ship that floats around the center of the earth, is made out of "Unobtainium"! :lol:
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby in_nowhere » Fri 08 Jun 2007, 02:00:55

Of all the things I worry about geomagnetic reversals is low on the list. There have been many many many reversals and none of them have caused an extinction. Things can be played up from what they are and I really don't think this one will cause a lot of problems.
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The Earth’s Magnetic Field Is Shifting, Poles May Flip

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 03 Feb 2018, 12:32:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')

"The shield that protects the Earth from solar radiation is under attack from within. We can’t prevent it, but we ought to prepare..." is the ominous sub-headline of a worrisome new report that shows scientists around the world fearing that the earth's magnetic field is shifting, with potentially disastrous consequences for mankind. "When next the poles change places, the consequences for the electrical and electronic infrastructure that runs civilization will be dire. The question is when that will happen." As SHTFplan.com's Mac Slavo notes, scientists from the University of Colorado in Boulder are sounding the alarm that the Earth’s magnetic poles are showing signs of reversing. Although the pole reversal, in and of itself, isn’t unprecedented, the solar winds that would take out the power grid and make parts of the globe uninhabitable could cause widespread disasters. The Earth has a fierce molten


The Earth’s Magnetic Field Is Shifting, Poles May Flip: “This Could Get Bad”
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 03 Feb 2018, 12:39:21

Based on the age of this thread, I was surprised to see that this pole reversal thing has been going on more than a decade, and the Happy McDoomsters haven't latched onto it as their next great Rapture trigger?
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby dissident » Sat 03 Feb 2018, 13:19:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'B')ased on the age of this thread, I was surprised to see that this pole reversal thing has been going on more than a decade, and the Happy McDoomsters haven't latched onto it as their next great Rapture trigger?


Pole reversals don't have to happen in less than 10 years to be fast enough to damage human infrastructure. You are a one-note-Johnny Pollyanna on some sort of crusade to prove the doomers wrong. This makes you a similar waste of space.

In the above posts concerns have been raised about the Earth's atmosphere being stripped during pole reversals. This is sheer nonsense. The Earth has been subjected to these reversals on an going basis for billions of years. Given the size of the Earth, it is very difficult for CO2, CO (upper atmosphere breakdown product of CO2), O2 and N2 to be thermally ejected out of the gravitational well. The solar wind is not all that fast and the associated electrons and protons do not have large amounts of energy unless they are ejected by CME's and directly aimed at the Earth. In fact, the relativistic electrons that precipitate in the auroral belt zone of the magnetic polar caps are the result of resonance processes within the distorted magnetic field of the Earth.

We have experience with CME induced solar proton events and they result in ionization typically down to 30 km above the surface. Due to the presence of a magnetic field we get a concentration of these high energy protons in 60 degree caps centered on the magnetic poles. Without a magnetic field the ionization would be distributed pole to pole but burrowing down to 50 km above the surface. In both cases some lighter fraction of gases above 100 km get stripped away. There is nothing special about the presence of a magnetic field since it does not stop the penetration of these high energy protons. The background solar wind is just too weak do strip our atmosphere when the CME associated events fail to do so.

Mars is a different case since it has only 1/3 the gravity at the surface. This means that Mars can and did lose most of its atmosphere (CO2) via thermal ejection from its gravitational potential well. By the same token the solar wind can strip the outer atmosphere of Mars much more effectively than the Earth's atmosphere.

In terms of infrastructure damage, we do not need pole reversals to see CME impacts. The 1989 event was anomalous and saw ionization penetrate to 10 km above the surface at high latitudes. This induced enough magnetic force to bring down the Quebec electricity grid (due to massive over current conditions). Under weak magnetic field conditions such events can occur at lower latitudes. However, there is a large element of luck. If over the span of a few decades and centuries there are no outlier CME events (or perfectly aimed cases) then the Quebec style events will not happen. However, when it comes to satellites, pole reversal conditions will terminate all existing satellites. A whole new, shielded design approach will be required. This will make satellites much heavier and more expensive to launch. Considering how BAU is the most sacred thing for humanity, expect all satellites to be disabled before anything is done to address the problem.
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 03 Feb 2018, 18:27:08

in - "There have been many many many reversals and none of them have caused an extinction." So true. OTOH no other species has been as dependent upon a stable magnetic field as man.
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sun 04 Feb 2018, 12:51:44

Following one of the linked articles that claim to support the imminent flip of the magnetic pole, actually says nothing of the sort.

"suggest a pole flip may be imminent. " links to : http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Obser ... etic_field.
All the article says about pole flipping is :
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he magnetic field is in a permanent state of flux. Magnetic north wanders, and every few hundred thousand years the polarity flips so that a compass would point south instead of north.


The authors of the scare story above obviously hope that no-one bothers to follow the links to verify the statements.
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 12 Jan 2019, 19:55:37

An update: the magnetic field is moving so fast they had to release an unscheduled update.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00007-1
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Re: Magnetic Pole Reversal + Solar Winds

Unread postby Cog » Sat 12 Jan 2019, 22:30:46

As I recall from my plate tectonic course the earth's magnetic field weakens before a polarity shift. And the actual polarity shift takes anywhere from 1000 to 10,000 years to complete. Some increased odds of skin cancer but our atmosphere does offer us protection for the most part.
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