Because we exist. In the Universe, which as far as anyone knows is governed by the same laws of physics. There being no other life is as unlikely as there elsewhere being no complete periodic table, since life (& us) are extensions thereof.
I find it interesting that science can't admit the inevitable infinity we are in. There's no wall out there somewhere, beyond which is nothing, forever & ever. The notion of One Universe, one Big Bang, is as anthropomorphic as the notion of one Earth like planet, one sentient species. Fair enough we can't yet see any other thing qualifying as a Universe, nor can we see any other definitely Earth like planets, but infinity is an obvious fact- incomprehensible, but fact.
PeakOil is You
Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by SeaGypsy » Fri 15 Dec 2017, 15:10:21
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by Newfie » Fri 15 Dec 2017, 16:48:56
“I can not prove a negative Newfie.”
On that we agree.
On that we agree.
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by vox_mundi » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 18:21:14
The Pentagon’s Secret Search for UFOs
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') WASHINGTON — In the $600 billion annual Defense Department budgets, the $22 million spent on the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program was almost impossible to find.
Which was how the Pentagon wanted it.
The Pentagon, at the direction of Congress, a decade ago quietly set up a multi-million dollar program to investigate what are popularly known as unidentified flying objects—UFOs.
The “unidentified aerial phenomena” claimed to have been seen by pilots and other military personnel appeared vastly more advanced than those in American or foreign arsenals. In some cases they maneuvered so unusually and so fast that they seemed to defy the laws of physics, according to multiple sources directly involved in or briefed on the effort and a review of unclassified Defense Department and congressional documents.
The Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, whose existence was not classified but operated with the knowledge of an extremely limited number of officials, was the brainchild of then-Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nevada), who first secured the appropriation to begin the program in 2009 with the support of the late Senators Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii) and Republican Ted Stevens (R-Alaska), two World War II veterans who were similarly concerned about the potential national security implications, the sources involved in the effort said. The origins of the program, the existence of which the Pentagon confirmed on Friday, are being revealed publicly for the first time by POLITICO and the New York Times in nearly simultaneous reports on Saturday.
None of the three senators wanted a public debate on the Senate floor about the funding for the program, Mr. Reid said. “This was so-called black money,” he said. “Stevens knows about it, Inouye knows about it. But that was it, and that’s how we wanted it.” Mr. Reid was referring to the Pentagon budget for classified programs.
Contracts obtained by The Times show a congressional appropriation of just under $22 million beginning in late 2008 through 2011. The money was used for management of the program, research and assessments of the threat posed by the objects.
The funding went to Mr. Bigelow’s company, Bigelow Aerospace, which hired subcontractors and solicited research for the program.
Under Mr. Bigelow’s direction, the company modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Mr. Elizondo and program contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena. Researchers also studied people who said they had experienced physical effects from encounters with the objects and examined them for any physiological changes. In addition, researchers spoke to military service members who had reported sightings of strange aircraft.
He described scores of unexplained sightings by Navy pilots and other observers of aircraft with capabilities far beyond what is currently considered aerodynamically possible. The sightings, Elizondo told POLITICO, were often reported in the vicinity of nuclear facilities, either ships at sea or power plants. "We had never seen anything like it."
Mellon described one of the sightings reported by U.S. Navy pilots: "It is white, oblong, some 40 feet long and perhaps 12 feet thick…The pilots are astonished to see the object suddenly reorient itself toward the approaching F/A-18. In a series of discreet tumbling maneuvers that seem to defy the laws of physics. The object takes a position directly behind the approaching F/A-18. The pilots capture gun camera footage and infrared imagery of the object. They are outmatched by a technology they’ve never seen." The Navy pilots can be heard trying to understand what they are seeing. “There’s a whole fleet of them,” one exclaims. Defense officials declined to release the location and date of the incident. Video
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/u ... -reid.html
“We’re sort of in the position of what would happen if you gave Leonardo da Vinci a garage-door opener,” said Harold E. Puthoff, an engineer who has conducted research on extrasensory perception for the C.I.A. and later worked as a contractor for the program. “First of all, he’d try to figure out what is this plastic stuff. He wouldn’t know anything about the electromagnetic signals involved or its function.”
By 2009, Mr. Reid decided that the program had made such extraordinary discoveries that he argued for heightened security to protect it. “Much progress has been made with the identification of several highly sensitive, unconventional aerospace-related findings,” Mr. Reid said in a letter to William Lynn III, a deputy defense secretary at the time, requesting that it be designated a “restricted special access program” limited to a few listed officials... there was a need for more serious attention to “the many accounts from the Navy and other services of unusual aerial systems interfering with military weapon platforms and displaying beyond-next-generation capabilities.
Mr. Elizondo said he and his government colleagues had determined that the phenomena they had studied did not seem to originate from any country on this planet.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') WASHINGTON — In the $600 billion annual Defense Department budgets, the $22 million spent on the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program was almost impossible to find.
Which was how the Pentagon wanted it.
The Pentagon, at the direction of Congress, a decade ago quietly set up a multi-million dollar program to investigate what are popularly known as unidentified flying objects—UFOs.
The “unidentified aerial phenomena” claimed to have been seen by pilots and other military personnel appeared vastly more advanced than those in American or foreign arsenals. In some cases they maneuvered so unusually and so fast that they seemed to defy the laws of physics, according to multiple sources directly involved in or briefed on the effort and a review of unclassified Defense Department and congressional documents.
The Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, whose existence was not classified but operated with the knowledge of an extremely limited number of officials, was the brainchild of then-Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nevada), who first secured the appropriation to begin the program in 2009 with the support of the late Senators Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii) and Republican Ted Stevens (R-Alaska), two World War II veterans who were similarly concerned about the potential national security implications, the sources involved in the effort said. The origins of the program, the existence of which the Pentagon confirmed on Friday, are being revealed publicly for the first time by POLITICO and the New York Times in nearly simultaneous reports on Saturday.
None of the three senators wanted a public debate on the Senate floor about the funding for the program, Mr. Reid said. “This was so-called black money,” he said. “Stevens knows about it, Inouye knows about it. But that was it, and that’s how we wanted it.” Mr. Reid was referring to the Pentagon budget for classified programs.
Contracts obtained by The Times show a congressional appropriation of just under $22 million beginning in late 2008 through 2011. The money was used for management of the program, research and assessments of the threat posed by the objects.
The funding went to Mr. Bigelow’s company, Bigelow Aerospace, which hired subcontractors and solicited research for the program.
Under Mr. Bigelow’s direction, the company modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Mr. Elizondo and program contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena. Researchers also studied people who said they had experienced physical effects from encounters with the objects and examined them for any physiological changes. In addition, researchers spoke to military service members who had reported sightings of strange aircraft.
He described scores of unexplained sightings by Navy pilots and other observers of aircraft with capabilities far beyond what is currently considered aerodynamically possible. The sightings, Elizondo told POLITICO, were often reported in the vicinity of nuclear facilities, either ships at sea or power plants. "We had never seen anything like it."
Mellon described one of the sightings reported by U.S. Navy pilots: "It is white, oblong, some 40 feet long and perhaps 12 feet thick…The pilots are astonished to see the object suddenly reorient itself toward the approaching F/A-18. In a series of discreet tumbling maneuvers that seem to defy the laws of physics. The object takes a position directly behind the approaching F/A-18. The pilots capture gun camera footage and infrared imagery of the object. They are outmatched by a technology they’ve never seen." The Navy pilots can be heard trying to understand what they are seeing. “There’s a whole fleet of them,” one exclaims. Defense officials declined to release the location and date of the incident. Video
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/u ... -reid.html
“We’re sort of in the position of what would happen if you gave Leonardo da Vinci a garage-door opener,” said Harold E. Puthoff, an engineer who has conducted research on extrasensory perception for the C.I.A. and later worked as a contractor for the program. “First of all, he’d try to figure out what is this plastic stuff. He wouldn’t know anything about the electromagnetic signals involved or its function.”
By 2009, Mr. Reid decided that the program had made such extraordinary discoveries that he argued for heightened security to protect it. “Much progress has been made with the identification of several highly sensitive, unconventional aerospace-related findings,” Mr. Reid said in a letter to William Lynn III, a deputy defense secretary at the time, requesting that it be designated a “restricted special access program” limited to a few listed officials... there was a need for more serious attention to “the many accounts from the Navy and other services of unusual aerial systems interfering with military weapon platforms and displaying beyond-next-generation capabilities.
Mr. Elizondo said he and his government colleagues had determined that the phenomena they had studied did not seem to originate from any country on this planet.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci
Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by onlooker » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 18:42:59
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLLoHzMbkM
UFOs THE BEST EVIDENCE 2: The Government CoverUp - FEATURE FILM
UFOs THE BEST EVIDENCE 2: The Government CoverUp - FEATURE FILM
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by vox_mundi » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 19:16:13
2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')mdr. David Fravor and Lt. Cmdr. Jim Slaight were on a routine training mission 100 miles out into the Pacific when the radio in each of their F/A-18F Super Hornets crackled: An operations officer aboard the U.S.S. Princeton, a Navy cruiser, wanted to know if they were carrying weapons.
“Two CATM-9s,” Commander Fravor replied, referring to dummy missiles that could not be fired. He had not been expecting any hostile exchanges off the coast of San Diego that November afternoon in 2004.
Commander Fravor, in a recent interview with The New York Times, recalled what happened next. Some of it is captured in a video made public by officials with a Pentagon program that investigated U.F.O.s.
“Well, we’ve got a real-world vector for you,” the radio operator said, according to Commander Fravor. For two weeks, the operator said, the Princeton had been tracking mysterious aircraft. The objects appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up.
The radio operator instructed Commander Fravor and Commander Slaight, who has given a similar account, to investigate.
The two fighter planes headed toward the objects. The Princeton alerted them as they closed in, but when they arrived at “merge plot” with the object — naval aviation parlance for being so close that the Princeton could not tell which were the objects and which were the fighter jets — neither Commander Fravor nor Commander Slaight could see anything at first. There was nothing on their radars, either.
Then, Commander Fravor looked down to the sea. It was calm that day, but the waves were breaking over something that was just below the surface. Whatever it was, it was big enough to cause the sea to churn.
Hovering 50 feet above the churn was an aircraft of some kind — whitish — that was around 40 feet long and oval in shape. The craft was jumping around erratically, staying over the wave disturbance but not moving in any specific direction, Commander Fravor said. The disturbance looked like frothy waves and foam, as if the water were boiling.
Commander Fravor began a circular descent to get a closer look, but as he got nearer the object began ascending toward him. It was almost as if it were coming to meet him halfway, he said.
Commander Fravor abandoned his slow circular descent and headed straight for the object.
But then the object peeled away. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said in the interview. He was, he said, “pretty weirded out.”
The two fighter jets then conferred with the operations officer on the Princeton and were told to head to a rendezvous point 60 miles away, called the cap point, in aviation parlance.
They were en route and closing in when the Princeton radioed again. Radar had again picked up the strange aircraft.
“Sir, you won’t believe it,” the radio operator said, “but that thing is at your cap point.”
“We were at least 40 miles away, and in less than a minute this thing was already at our cap point,” Commander Fravor, who has since retired from the Navy, said in the interview.
“I have no idea what I saw,” Commander Fravor said. “It had no plumes, wings or rotors and outran our F-18s.” But, he added, “I want to fly one.”
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')mdr. David Fravor and Lt. Cmdr. Jim Slaight were on a routine training mission 100 miles out into the Pacific when the radio in each of their F/A-18F Super Hornets crackled: An operations officer aboard the U.S.S. Princeton, a Navy cruiser, wanted to know if they were carrying weapons.
“Two CATM-9s,” Commander Fravor replied, referring to dummy missiles that could not be fired. He had not been expecting any hostile exchanges off the coast of San Diego that November afternoon in 2004.
Commander Fravor, in a recent interview with The New York Times, recalled what happened next. Some of it is captured in a video made public by officials with a Pentagon program that investigated U.F.O.s.
“Well, we’ve got a real-world vector for you,” the radio operator said, according to Commander Fravor. For two weeks, the operator said, the Princeton had been tracking mysterious aircraft. The objects appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up.
The radio operator instructed Commander Fravor and Commander Slaight, who has given a similar account, to investigate.
The two fighter planes headed toward the objects. The Princeton alerted them as they closed in, but when they arrived at “merge plot” with the object — naval aviation parlance for being so close that the Princeton could not tell which were the objects and which were the fighter jets — neither Commander Fravor nor Commander Slaight could see anything at first. There was nothing on their radars, either.
Then, Commander Fravor looked down to the sea. It was calm that day, but the waves were breaking over something that was just below the surface. Whatever it was, it was big enough to cause the sea to churn.
Hovering 50 feet above the churn was an aircraft of some kind — whitish — that was around 40 feet long and oval in shape. The craft was jumping around erratically, staying over the wave disturbance but not moving in any specific direction, Commander Fravor said. The disturbance looked like frothy waves and foam, as if the water were boiling.
Commander Fravor began a circular descent to get a closer look, but as he got nearer the object began ascending toward him. It was almost as if it were coming to meet him halfway, he said.
Commander Fravor abandoned his slow circular descent and headed straight for the object.
But then the object peeled away. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said in the interview. He was, he said, “pretty weirded out.”
The two fighter jets then conferred with the operations officer on the Princeton and were told to head to a rendezvous point 60 miles away, called the cap point, in aviation parlance.
They were en route and closing in when the Princeton radioed again. Radar had again picked up the strange aircraft.
“Sir, you won’t believe it,” the radio operator said, “but that thing is at your cap point.”
“We were at least 40 miles away, and in less than a minute this thing was already at our cap point,” Commander Fravor, who has since retired from the Navy, said in the interview.
“I have no idea what I saw,” Commander Fravor said. “It had no plumes, wings or rotors and outran our F-18s.” But, he added, “I want to fly one.”
UFOs monitored nuclear weapons
https://www.nicap.org/babylon/missiles.htm
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci
Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by Outcast_Searcher » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 19:42:35
In modern times, photos can be doctored.
Are we to believe UFO's are flying around because two airmen saw something they didn't understand?
This sort of thing sounds far more like denial of AGW or evolution than anything approaching scientific credibility.
Are we to believe UFO's are flying around because two airmen saw something they didn't understand?
This sort of thing sounds far more like denial of AGW or evolution than anything approaching scientific credibility.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by vox_mundi » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 19:58:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'I')n modern times, photos can be doctored.
Are we to believe UFO's are flying around because two airmen saw something they didn't understand?
This sort of thing sounds far more like denial of AGW or evolution than anything approaching scientific credibility.
Are we to believe UFO's are flying around because two airmen saw something they didn't understand?
This sort of thing sounds far more like denial of AGW or evolution than anything approaching scientific credibility.
Try 2000 airmen, navy, and army. Or more. Many officers.
A family member who worked at the Pentagon confided that this is the tip of the iceberg.
It has nothing to do with AGW or evolution
I came within a 1000 yards of one myself. It's not from around here.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci
Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
-
vox_mundi - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3939
- Joined: Wed 27 Sep 2006, 03:00:00
Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by Newfie » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 20:24:16
Interesting stuff.
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by Cog » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 21:16:52
Pretty amazing that with the proliferation of cell phone cameras, that no one can obtain anything better than fuzzy pictures. A bit like the hunt for sasquatch.
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by MD » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 02:10:00
alien megastructures are more likely to resemble natural objects and less likely to resemble such unstable oddities as ringworlds or dyson sphreres. I'm much more likely to accept the moon as a potential artifact than the possibility of ringworlds. that doesn't make for good sci-fi though. After all, every good story plot must include human progeny on a technology junket winning the galaxy against all defenders. the thought that the moon was sailed here on a multimillion year journey, put into orbit around earth in a billion year project to bring us here just isn't a fun story. Leaves us monkeys too far out of the running (which we likely are, btw... sorry to burst your star wars loving bubble)
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by MD » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 03:10:46
So, let's stop and look at what we know, or can reasonably surmise:
If faster than light travel were possible, the galaxy would be overrun by now. So, either life is as pervasive as we all like to thiink, but local and subject to natural limits, then only very very long engineering projects are likely. We're talking millions of years.
Kind of puts us monkeys out of play, doesn't it? Why in our arrogance do we think our children's children will go forth and explore strange new worlds? Perhaps our true progeny will, but they won't likely look anything like us.
Galactic dna seeds might work or Planetoid forays across the depths, with moon like constructs taking tens of thousands of years to cross the gulfs, while their surfaces ablate away from endless dust particles bombarding their surfaces as they chug along at .01 light speed. (oops... the moon looks like ti might have made such a journey... funny). Of course that requires some control over gravity or energy technologies far beyond what we can currently see from our monkey's view.
Technology is a funny thing though. There are limits, but how far up the ladder do they finally kick in with the resolute power of physical limitation? I have no clue. I think it reasonable though to assume they are a good way above where we sit now.
who knows, but from this monkey's perspective, likely realities don't make for very good stories, so carry on trekkies!
If faster than light travel were possible, the galaxy would be overrun by now. So, either life is as pervasive as we all like to thiink, but local and subject to natural limits, then only very very long engineering projects are likely. We're talking millions of years.
Kind of puts us monkeys out of play, doesn't it? Why in our arrogance do we think our children's children will go forth and explore strange new worlds? Perhaps our true progeny will, but they won't likely look anything like us.
Galactic dna seeds might work or Planetoid forays across the depths, with moon like constructs taking tens of thousands of years to cross the gulfs, while their surfaces ablate away from endless dust particles bombarding their surfaces as they chug along at .01 light speed. (oops... the moon looks like ti might have made such a journey... funny). Of course that requires some control over gravity or energy technologies far beyond what we can currently see from our monkey's view.
Technology is a funny thing though. There are limits, but how far up the ladder do they finally kick in with the resolute power of physical limitation? I have no clue. I think it reasonable though to assume they are a good way above where we sit now.
who knows, but from this monkey's perspective, likely realities don't make for very good stories, so carry on trekkies!
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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MD - COB
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Re: Has Kepler Discovered an Alien Megastructure?
by Outcast_Searcher » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 03:12:32
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vox_mundi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'I')n modern times, photos can be doctored.
Are we to believe UFO's are flying around because two airmen saw something they didn't understand?
This sort of thing sounds far more like denial of AGW or evolution than anything approaching scientific credibility.
Are we to believe UFO's are flying around because two airmen saw something they didn't understand?
This sort of thing sounds far more like denial of AGW or evolution than anything approaching scientific credibility.
Try 2000 airmen, navy, and army. Or more. Many officers.
A family member who worked at the Pentagon confided that this is the tip of the iceberg.
It has nothing to do with AGW or evolution
I came within a 1000 yards of one myself. It's not from around here.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Raving isn't proof.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Outcast_Searcher - COB
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