Zero Point Energy (merged)

by **threadbear** » Sun 10 Jul 2005, 17:44:40

Interesting post. Zero point energy could be fairly well understood in the realm of classified physics, but it's not anything we're going to see any time soon. Free energy would doom humanity. Expensive energy applies brakes to growth, teaches people what they're basically here to learn-- that they have to operate within limits.

What is true in the personal and social realm is equally true when applied to our relationship with the natural world. There is a moral if not spiritual component to energy. Taken further into the military realm, the moral failure of humanity in a free energy environment would logically lead to exotic arms production. You really want to see a survivalist with a nasty attitude and a bunch of handguns, in a world of free energy? He'd have all the energy in the world at his disposal, on a planet devoid of water, animals, plants, after the human population explosion. Zero point energy, if available to the public, would equal zero eco-system, zero planet, zero us.

As far as ufos go, I'll take the words of Edgar Mitchell, the late Gordon Cooper and Story Musgrave, three respected astronauts, over any yahoo with compelling but ultimately useless psycho-social theories. If paying heed to the most highly trained observers on the planet is psychological ratcheting, we have a problem here. The condescending attitudes embodied in the dominant epistemologies of our times, ones that pathologize witnesses of events that are poorly understood, says much more about the debunker than the sincere witness. He is a mundane thinker- he is sensitive to social pressure- he is a careerist who toes the line, living a delusion, thinly veiled by a guaze of intellectual arrogance.

The ufo phenomenon demands more open and intense scrutiny, not dismissal. Political deconstructionism is applied to every social/political topic, but this one, and that's a shame, because anyone wishing to approach this topic from this angle will be engaged and enlightened.

Albente, There are some highly credentialed, highly placed individuals who are very interested in the esoteric. Why be ashamed of ufo interest? What happened to you? PM me, if you like.

by **Novus** » Wed 13 Jul 2005, 20:38:34

I did some more research into the antiquities of ZPE. I found this interesting carving from the Hypostyle Hall of Karnak.

What are those things? The Egyptologists do not know. The pot shaped object on the right appears to be a clay battery. Wires coming out of the pot power some type of electrical device.

This carving was found in the Hypostyle Hall which has a little known wonder of engineering. There is a 100 ton stome placed 70 feet in the air on top of the most massive collumns in the world. The stone is still sitting there 3500 years after it was set.

The Egyptologists give the same standard answer of how the Hypostyle hall was built as they do for every other wonder of the ancient world. That is thousands of slaves toiling away on ropes compelled by merciless task masters. Using the sugested techniques of ramps and rigging this stone is impossible even with thousands of slaves.

I beleive the carving above explains the true technique for lifting the stone. The Egyptians had built a harmonic anti-gravity device similar to Ed Leedskalnin's generator. The construction of the Hypostyle Hall was seen as a miracle from Amon Ra and proof that the Pharaoh was a living god. If it was built by slaves how would it be a miricle? It would only seen as a miricle if the Pharaoh and his priests built it themselves. They could have lifted it if they knew about sacred geometry.

The Egyptions weren't the only ones who knew about sacred geometry. It is also mentioned in the bible to perform another miricle of construction. It was writen that Solomon's temple was constructed with sacred knowledge from God. This knowledge was intrusted to just a few stone laborers who became the guild of Masons. The only purpose for the existance of the free masons after the temple was built is to keep this knowledge secret. The guild of Free Masons has been responsible for the construction of all the great stone wonders of Europe since biblical times. The secret of their trade can be seen in their symbol of a compass and square which is used in a process of squaring the circle to calculate the sacred geometry to move the greatest of blocks. Sacred geometry associated with harmonic anti-gravity is the trade secret the Free Masons have been hiding for all these centuries.

This fits another piece of the ZPE puzzel together.

by **EnergySpin** » Wed 13 Jul 2005, 21:09:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'c')ompass and square which is used in a process of squaring the circle to calculate the sacred geometry to move the greatest of blocks

by **J-Rod** » Wed 13 Jul 2005, 22:27:26

For some good reads on stuff like the tubes you posted Novus, google around for Zecharia Sitchin. He's written exhaustive works on the accomplishments of ancient man, and all the knowledge that stemmed from Sumeria, as well as tried to tackle the mystery of why civilization seemed to actually regress from the Sumerian times. Nothing dealing with ZPE, more with theories of the origins of humanity. Of course it's not without alot of skeptics, but I've read several of his books, and I found them to be pretty good. Alot of his points come from his own translations of texts, and of course translations can be biased... or maybe google "Annunaki" - "Those who from heaven to Earth came."

http://tinyurl.com/87sa7

http://www.sitchin.com/

I am sure you can find more.

by **aldente** » Thu 14 Jul 2005, 02:42:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', ' ')Zero point energy, if available to the public, would equal zero eco-system, zero planet, zero us.

by **threadbear** » Thu 14 Jul 2005, 12:32:58

Albente, Sorry, a one word rebuttal won't do. Explain why infinite energy on a finite planet, wouldn't be a dangerous thing for humanity. Go ahead. Take your best shot.

by **aldente** » Thu 14 Jul 2005, 13:36:41

I am willing to change my point on that. I had my doubts as well to be honest when thinking the process through and came to the conclusion that the existing systems (economic, political etc.) only would abuse ZPE under the premise of their short sightged motifs that they operate under.

by **Novus** » Thu 14 Jul 2005, 20:31:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '
')By the way, squaring the circle with these tools is a mathematical impossibility. There is an elegant proof from the 19th century. A less formal way to see why it is impossible, goes back to the school formula for the circle circumference. Pi is an irrational number and cannot be produced by any finite operation of segment subdivision.
So ... they might have had Zero Energy devices but there is no way they could have squared the circle

by **Brandon** » Fri 15 Jul 2005, 21:07:21

Egyptians, Ed Leedskalnin, and other builders of ancient massive structures likely used an ancient cement. Not ZPE. Not antigravity. The proof is in the analysis of the "stone". Hairs embedded inside the stone. Internal structures not consistent with normal stone.

Download and watch the second video on this page (13.8 MB):
http://www.geopolymer.org/science_archa ... _made.html

On Proving Ancient Megalith Construction:
http://slimebug.home.comcast.net/megaliths.html

Seems reasonable to me.

by **J-Rod** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 01:34:10

Wow, great link. I really like the presentation of the cement molds. Makes perfect sense, based on all the evidence shown.

by **katkinkate** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 02:36:26

Pity they didn't give a more exact recipe for do-it-yourself stones. Would make great garden borders. You could create your own stonework garden and impress the neighbours.

by **Novus** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 12:09:45

Ancient cement is nonsence. Ed used Coral which is made out of dead sea creatures. You cannot grind up coral and use cement to reform it and preserve the skeletal structure of the coral. It is like saying you can reform a cow out of hamburger.

The Egyptians carved all their stones. We have proof they were carved because we know where the stones were quarried. They even left some unfinished stones behind such as the Aswan oblisk.

The stone cracked so it was abandoned. If they had ancient cement why didn't they just fix the crack or bother carving the stone in the first place?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ncient cement avoids a timeline violation because it is fully capable of participating in construction of the Trilithon. The natural progression of knowledge is maintained because our knowledge of the physics of lifting has advanced from ancient times as would be expected. Today we can lift and precisely place far more cement than ancient man by using machines that have far less capability than NASA's crane. Hoover Dam is proof.

by **J-Rod** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 08:22:09

If you bothered to read the article, it explains that the aggregate used to make the cement was quarried from right there.... As well as they have found organics that really shouldn't have been in natural carved limestone, such as human hairs. As well it explains the 30,000 stone pitchers and statues made out of material that is so hard even sculptors today wouldn't touch it, and there's not a tool mark to be found. It's very likely that casting and the associated chemistry was a secret that the Egyptians held. Sorry if that theory doesn't hold well with your ZPE explaination. Sometimes a good answer ends up being simple...

by **Novus** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 11:35:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('J-Rod', 'I')f you bothered to read the article, it explains that the aggregate used to make the cement was quarried from right there.... As well as they have found organics that really shouldn't have been in natural carved limestone, such as human hairs. As well it explains the 30,000 stone pitchers and statues made out of material that is so hard even sculptors today wouldn't touch it, and there's not a tool mark to be found. It's very likely that casting and the associated chemistry was a secret that the Egyptians held. Sorry if that theory doesn't hold well with your ZPE explaination. Sometimes a good answer ends up being simple...

by **J-Rod** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 12:58:52

The article specifically dealt with the aggregate, saying that if you soaked the soft limestone in water, after 24 hours the limestone seperates, and the shells are left intact. They also made a test batch using the same chemical formulas derived from the stelae and heiroglyphs. It reformed into the pyramid shown here, strong as any natual formed hard variety of limestone, with shells intact.

http://tinyurl.com/96rd5

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n October 1991, during the shooting of the TV production “ This Old Pyramid ” by NOVA, aired on the American PBS network on September 1992, Prof. Davidovits had the opportunity to present this unique property of the Giza limestone. A chunk of limestone taken in the quarry was very easily disaggregated within 24 hours, leaving the nummulites and the clay gently separated from each other, whereas a chunk of the hard Mokkatam limestone did not disintegrate at all.

by **Novus** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 16:25:12

Yes, this thread has gotten a little off topic. This thread is really about modern ZPE achievments not the achievments of the ancients. I don't really want this thread to die because in a few weeks I will only have to create another one when the next ZPE breakthrough comes along.

So getting back on topic.

In the latest ZPE news Kofi Annan visited Nicholas Moller's Research & Development Lab in Fontainebleau, France. There he demonstrated the MAHG producing an EROEI of 21 and the Lifter project.

The lifter project has been sucessully reproduced and documented 317 times. The lifter project demonstrates how the Casimir Force can used to produce levitation.

Kofi Annan was so impressed by the research of Moller's lab that he wrote this letter of recommendation.

by **Sunspot** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 18:55:20

Didn't read most of these posts. Let's just make this real simple: build your widget, put it in a black box if you want, bring it over here and put it in my basement. I'll disconnect from the grid, and if I can still watch TV, then you've got something!
There is a misconception out there that "Science" is opposed to all these alternative energy schemes. But all it takes is a clear demonstration that something actually works and, I guarantee you, scientists will be interested. And it's not necessary to demonstrate to the nth atom just how it works, if it works then we'll run with it.
Too many of these schemes are just people looking to suck down some research money. Beats workin' for a living....

by **eric_b** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 19:05:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'Y')es, this thread has gotten a little off topic. This thread is really about modern ZPE achievments not the achievments of the ancients. I don't really want this thread to die because in a few weeks I will only have to create another one when the next ZPE breakthrough comes along.

So getting back on topic.

In the latest ZPE news Kofi Annan visited Nicholas Moller's Research & Development Lab in Fontainebleau, France. There he demonstrated the MAHG producing an EROEI of 21 and the Lifter project.

The lifter project has been sucessully reproduced and documented 317 times. The lifter project demonstrates how the Casimir Force can used to produce levitation.

Kofi Annan was so impressed by the research of Moller's lab that he wrote this letter of recommendation.

by **Novus** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 20:01:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eric_b', '
')Gawd.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the MAHG device is BULLSHIT.

Casmir 'force' is interesting, but hardly germane as far a creating useful
amounts of energy.

The concept behind the MAHG device is combining individual hydrogen atoms
(atomic hydrogen) into molecular hydrogen (H2) releases more energy
than is lost dissociating H2 back to atomic hydrogen. This contradicts all known
thermodynamic laws. So where does this extra energy come from? Supposedly
those tricky little hydrogen atoms act as 'pumps', pulling energy from the ZPE
vacuum before releasing it when recombining.

Ya. Whatever. Sounds like perpetual motion to me.

by **eric_b** » Sun 17 Jul 2005, 21:41:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', '
')
MAHG is hardly BS. My explaination of how the MAHG works in theory can found on page threeof this thread.

You seem to disbelieve in MAHG based on your groups attempts to recreate the MEG experiment. Tom Bearden did have some interesting theories but his idea of MEG was flawed because it didn't integrate sacred geometry which both the MAHG and lift project do.

Just because MEG turned out to be a dead end does not mean all the other ZPE projects are doomed. There are lots of people working on this and some seem very promising. Remember Edison failed thousands of times befor he got the light bulb to work.

As for Kofi Annan being duped; seeing the lift projects is what really blew his mind. Seeing something float off the desk will convince just about anyone ZPE is real.

Zero Point Energy (merged)

Squaring the Circle

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