[Ibon]

I have nothing to add after 10 years of returning to this topic except to emphasize that energy inputs alone do not define carrying capacity. Human social behavior will have a huge impact.
If for example digital media continues to homogenize us into a single group mind of compliant ants then we will continue this trajectory of sacrificing our personal freedoms to the digital gods of efficiency and we will become obedient minions. This can indeed allow our numbers to grow into a dozen billion or more.

We are becoming a global population of duped idiots believing that we are increasing our personal independence and freedom as each new digital manifestation is actually doing the opposite and aligning us into one homogenized mass of fools.

Die off of numbers is only one aspect.

There is the die-off of integrity as well.

[Newfie]

Marshall McLuhan. From Wiki

Talk about prescient. Much more on that Wiki. Then ther is the follow on work, Entetaining Ourselves to Death, by an admirer.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')lobal Village Edit
In the early 1960s, McLuhan wrote that the visual, individualistic print culture would soon be brought to an end by what he called "electronic interdependence": when electronic media replace visual culture with aural/oral culture. In this new age, humankind will move from individualism and fragmentation to a collective identity, with a "tribal base." McLuhan's coinage for this new social organization is the global village.[45]

The term is sometimes described as having negative connotations in The Gutenberg Galaxy, but McLuhan himself was interested in exploring effects, not making value judgments:

[Newfie]

Ibon,

There is much to what you note. Remember the Borg from Star Trek? There we are, all digitally connected and ready to "correct" any thing or anyone that disturbs out communal security.

But there is the other phenomenon, the Echo Chamber. Where we isolate ourselves into like minded, self referential, self absorbed domaines. And we MUST be right because everyone else knows thinks like us.

We Americans like to think we are exporting our culture (religion?) throughout the world. But one needs to ask; is Afghanistan becoming Western democracy? Or; is the USA becoming a collection of hard core partisan tribes?

Somehow it seems we have skimmed the worst of the Information Age. We are alike in our superficial analysis and understanding and isolated into cultural enclaves.

"For What It's Worth"
Steven Stills - Buffalo Springfield

There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking' their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Now, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

[Cog]

The only die-off anyone here is going to have to worry about, is the genetic tick-tock going on in their bodies. Which is a shame really. When we age we gain wisdom and the ability to not let our hormones and emotions rule us. Only to have our bodies self-destruct.

[Newfie]

Due to our average advanced age you are probably right. Not so for our kids and grandkids. We have lead blessed lives.

[onlooker]

Accolades to Care, for your contributions to all things permaculture. Considering the advancements on many fronts of permaculture that is source of optimism. Oh and good observation Cog. What is fascinating is that while individuals may wither and die, knowledge keeps accumulating. Hopefully, that knowledge will be converted to wisdom. Generally, I have been able to gain a staunch and realistic optimistic viewpoint thanks to my frequency on this site. Thanks everyone for great posts. While I appreciate Pstarr for maintaining our focus on the peak oil dynamic, the one element that truly should scare every human is climate change.

[sparky]

.
Ibon
well , human are a self domesticated animal , but nobody tell us who own the flock or the folks
Cog ,
"When we age we gain wisdom and the ability to not let our hormones and emotions rule us.Only to have our bodies self-destruct."

I've got the self destruct down pat ,did help the body somewhat ,but I've missed on the rest .

[peripato]

Between 0.3M and 3M survivors worldwide...

[Newfie]

Sparky,
You reminded me of this.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ill we solve the crises of next hundred years? asked Krulwich. “Yes, if we are honest and smart,” said Wilson. “The real problem of humanity is the following: we have paleolithic emotions; medieval institutions; and god-like technology. And it is terrifically dangerous, and it is now approaching a point of crisis overall.” Until we understand ourselves, concluded the Pulitzer-prize winning author of On Human Nature, “until we answer those huge questions of philosophy that the philosophers abandoned a couple of generations ago—Where do we come from? Who are we? Where are we going?—rationally,” we’re on very thin ground.

[sparky]

.
@ peripato , a billion people are so poor now that any global society collapse ,
they would meet it with indifference .

@ Newfie , thank for the quote , I'm checking the guy now
as for human nature , I don't believe we can or should change it .
being short term selfish bastards is a prime tool of survival
that's why selfish bastards survive best
things will turn out OK , long.... very long term

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')he only die-off anyone here is going to have to worry about, is the genetic tick-tock going on in their bodies. Which is a shame really. When we age we gain wisdom and the ability to not let our hormones and emotions rule us. Only to have our bodies self-destruct.