[Guest]

Science Friday - Public Radio
If anyone catches this post in the next few minutes, public radio discussing future energy needs to support world population of 10 billion w/ solor / hydrogen. If you read this soon (11: am Friday 8/13) turn it on the show!

They had an interesting duscussion a couple of weeks ago on oil depletion. I think they are catching on!
Trip

[Pops]

http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/

It's available online after 3pm eastern

[Guest]

Thanks for posting this...

Do any of you think if Kerry gets elected we will see leadership that is willing to invest in a project as huge as the moon shot? I hope so...

[gg3]

Yes, I think so. Kerry is a practical man. All of the talk about "flip-flopping" is merely a way of smearing someone for being willing to change his opinion when new facts become apparent.

A few weeks ago, world-renowned physicist Stephen Hawking announced that he had developed a new theory with regard to black holes, which overcame limitations in his previous theory. In fact, the new theory was basically the opposite of the previous. Hawking did what scientists do, which is to publish the new theory, with all the maths to back it up, and cheerfully admit that his previous theory appears to be mistaken in light of what he's discovered since then.

In fact he even publicly admitted that, as a result, he lost a bet with another physicist, and in consequence, owed the other guy an encyclopedia. This occurred under the flash of news cameras, with everyone in an upbeat mood because better theories tell us more about the nature of things than the theories they replace.

No one in their right mind would accuse Hawking, or any other good scientist, of "flip-flopping" when they change their own opinions in light of new facts or better theories.

[TripleGemini]

Agreed!!

[Newbie]

This may already have been noted, but word is definitely spreading.

http://onpointradio.org/shows/2004/09/20040906_b_main.asp

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he End of Oil (Rebroadcast)
Aired: Monday, September 06, 2004 8-9PM ET
Current predictions have world oil production peaking somewhere between 2005 and 2035, with demand steadily rising as growing economies like China and India start consuming more and more.

But the oil-fired economy, and the lifestyle that comes with it, is nearing an end, says writer Paul Roberts in his new book, "The End of Oil." A radical adjustment will be required, says Roberts, and it can happen gradually or it can come the hard way, which could force the world into a chaotic rendezvous with the post-oil age.

Click the "Listen" link to hear about what may come next, when world supplies of oil near an end.

· Paul Roberts, author, "The End of Oil: On the Edge of a Perilous New World."

[nigel]

Read the book - it's better than most.

[aflurry]

Waking up to the news on NPR this morning, they were commenting on the Goldman Sachs analysis of the possibility of $105 oil. It is so strange that they can go through an entire piece like this without actually talking about the concept of peak oil.

The news in America has this way of obscuring the larger picture by speaking solely about "the American way of life" and framing all stories in this context.

In this case it means that instead of following up on the consequences of oil prices doubling worldwide, they narrow the discussion to how American gas prices may shoot up to be more in line with those in Europe.

Well now that doesn't sound too bad does it? So people will switch from SUV's to smaller european style cars and start wearing beret's and it will all be cool... daddio.

What the hell? Can anyone help me get a fix on what portion of the consequences of oil peaking will be manifested as rising gas prices? I suspect in the overall scheme this will be the least of our worries. Mainstream media seems to be unable to see the problem as anything greater than "rising consumer prices at the pump," promping such equally hackneyed responses as "well honey I guess we'll have to do some belt tightening," or some nonsense.

There is a certain kind of American smugness and primacy that is shown in the coverage of world events by the American media, where everything is twisted up and retold as the unfolding drama of the American people. They regress so easily into preciousness verging on babytalk. It reached a bizarre pitch after Sept 11th, with local paper headlines pleading "Why Do They Hate Us So?"

Here is a classic of the genre from USA today (drifting from peak oil here - but not in the larger sense):

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... ion-_x.htm

What?!?! Foreing pollution invading OUR air? Obscuring the view at our National Parks? Why, that chinese smog may dim my awe of the fluttering American Flag, yonder.

OK, done with the rant for now.

[killJOY]

Yes, the media--even that "liberal" irrelevancy, NPR--is a sideshow.

I could not get away from that [deleted] "feeding tube," even though I have no TV and only hear NPR intermittently. It's like that [deleted] oozes out of your very pores.

And the government is more and more irrelevant.

Neither is going to save us. I say, just prepare yourself psychologically for some big, big changes to come down the pike. That's all I say now.

{edited by MQ}

[brobak]

www.wamu.org is going to have an analytical discussion of Peak Oil at 10am. They have a live stream from their website. I just found out about it, and I thought that I'd post in case people wanted to listen in and comment.

Link to live streaming audio

[Schweinshaxe]

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned that Justice Talking recently had a PO special. (Or i missed it somehow) Almost an hour PO discussion with a few PO-celebs. If the radio waves can travel aaaaall the way from the USA to Germany I don't understand why this wasn't noticed on this board.

Are you Americans too busy modifying your assault rifles, polishing your SUV:s and downloading ring tones for your cell phones to listen to radio? Or is NPR too liberal? You can dowload the discussion as an MP3-file here: http://www.justicetalking.com

While you're at it, the discussion about Medical Marijuana was quite entertaining...

[GrizzAdams]

Haha, yeah most of us Americans have an attention span less than that of a fly, which for me, makes just about everyone around me, a seriously dull conversationist. However, thanks for the link and the "heads up."

[bart]

Thanks for the link, Schweinshaxe.

Actually, one of the reasons I overlooked it is that there is now SO MUCH Peak Oil material available in the US. In spite of all its faults, the US does seem to be much more open to new ideas like PO... which is why I'm optimistic about the US in the long term.

I'm rather disappointed at the lack of PO information coming from Europe and the rest of the world. There seems to be a much higher level of energy awareness in general, as opposed to the US. But I haven't been able to find Peak Oil spokepeople like Heinberg or Kunstler, or Peak Oil groups such as Post-Carbon.

I'm aware of PO groups in England, NZ, or Australia, but that seems to be about it. Maybe these groups do exist in other countries, but I don't run into them because I usually stick to English-language websites.

Are you aware of any Peak Oil sites or spokespeople in Germany or other countries on the Continent?

[Schweinshaxe]

Don't take my posts too seriously here in Open Discussions. I'm just what you may call a PO-hang around. I like to provoke and pull peoples legs sometimes. That's all.

There are a few PO related sites in Europe. www.peakoil.de is one of them but it's unfortunately in German. Professor Kjell Aleklett is a Norwegian (I think) PO-celeb working at the Uppsala University in Sweden, so there you have the Scandinavian connection.

We tend however to be a little bit reluctant to the idea of looting Mad Max zombies with machine guns as a result of 5 Cents higher gas price here in Europe. (You see, there I go again...)

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schweinshaxe', ':')P
Don't take my posts too seriously here in Open Discussions. I'm just what you may call a PO-hang around. I like to provoke and pull peoples legs sometimes. That's all.

[k_semler]

I don't listen to NPR. It is too monotone for my blood. The only program I like is the nightly BBC feed from 2200-23:59. And I don't like bubbaized guns either. Too many accessories on your gun make it craptacular. I also prefer non-permenant modifications on firearms.

[pilferage]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schweinshaxe', 'A')re you Americans too busy modifying your assault rifles, polishing your SUV:s and downloading ring tones for your cell phones to listen to radio? Or is NPR too liberal?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', 'I') don't listen to NPR. It is too monotone for my blood. The only program I like is the nightly BBC feed from 2200-23:59.

[PenultimateManStanding]

I am listening to the link of the show. Kunstler's favorite phrase has to be 'dry up and blow away.' WalMart and Costco on the one hand, Phoenix and Las Vegas on the other.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pilferage', '
')Of course I was raised on KPFK and have gone even farther *insert direction here* since than.