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How real is real

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Re: How real is real

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 09 Sep 2016, 01:16:45

Another Aspergers symptom is being deeply disturbed & excited by direct criticism. Mostly his mumblings from the corner get mostly ignored, poor Pstar gets stuck into him a bit you probably noticed, but I'm better at it & sometimes he pisses me off enough & I get stuck in, which Mossie can't stand, hence his pathetic sneery whiney tone & broken record noise making. Honestly I don't get why he is here, just been around so long he thinks he's part of the furniture is the only conclusion. (As Mos he began in the first year or 2 of the site & from memory made over 12,000 posts.)
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby ennui2 » Fri 09 Sep 2016, 01:25:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SumYunGai', '
')This site is currently experiencing an ennui glut! Hopefully 34 posts in one day will constitute the all time peak. I wonder what caused ennui's production numbers to suddenly spike so uncontrollably?


The only thing more pathetic than posting as much as I do is going to the bother of charting it like you just did. Seriously. You're in a glass house. Don't throw stones.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 09 Sep 2016, 12:48:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', ' ') What's relevant is whatever people want to know.


"What people WANT to know."

QED.

That is called, "selling soap".
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 09 Sep 2016, 21:32:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'T')hat's why a lot of this sentiment is simply the fantasy we have of using the MSM as our own personal ideological mouthpiece (ala Network).


The fantasy for me goes much deeper than each individual's subjective interpretation of truth and reality. What I am trying to address is that when any of us claim dysfunction from any of our major institutions; media, government, religions, economic system, etc.... what lies underneath this claim is that our dilemma is still fixable with enlightened understanding.

What is fixable has two components as I see it. The first one is to get everyone to agree and find consensus about what is the priority of truth and reality we need to address. What you mentioned. Let's take Newfie's suggestions. Do any of us here dispute this. Probably not really. To get the greater consensus of all world governments to agree? Is this probable? Realistic? I think it is close to impossible now. Not in the future. But now yes, highly highly improbable.

The second component is then executing the necessary changes to address over population and consumption. Just like there are 1000 interpretations of truth and reality there would be 1000 interpretations of how this should be executed. Equitably? Do we only address birth rates or recognize increasing the death rates in reference to over population. On consumption how would we execute a global moratorium or a set of limits or guidelines on which individual or which nation gets allocated how much resources?

Why do I bring this up? behind every boogyman we claim as the culprit; the MSM, BAU, Capitalism, Neo cons, Koch brothers, civilization, agriculture, bla bla bla bla,,,,, We do not look much beyond the short term horizon of naming and blaming and go beyond that and then work through the scenarios of executing the necessary changes.

Of course I opened this dialogue because you all know where I am eventually heading.

This is not fixable with human agency this late in the game. Not without external consequences.

Every couple of months I will jump in here to remind us all of this once again.

Back to pinning my bugs.


The catch is that overpopulation and overconsumption took place because of the "bogeyman" capitalism.

Also, the problems cannot be resolved because of the same external consequences.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 09 Sep 2016, 21:34:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')
When the MSM reports a story about Fukushima do they report the facts, or do they hype fear with every scary sounding word in their vocabulary to draw more audience and increase their ratings for ad revenue purposes?


They can also follow governments and businesses and downplay the effects, thus allowing for more sales of goods and services.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 09 Sep 2016, 21:37:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')
When the MSM reports a story about Fukushima do they report the facts, or do they hype fear with every scary sounding word in their vocabulary to draw more audience and increase their ratings for ad revenue purposes?


They can also follow governments and businesses and downplay the effects, thus allowing for more sales of goods and services.


Theoretically sure, but since 1979 I have never seen them do that, always on the side of hyping the fear, never on the side of calm logical decision making.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby ennui2 » Fri 09 Sep 2016, 22:45:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')
When the MSM reports a story about Fukushima do they report the facts, or do they hype fear with every scary sounding word in their vocabulary to draw more audience and increase their ratings for ad revenue purposes?


They can also follow governments and businesses and downplay the effects, thus allowing for more sales of goods and services.


The above is exactly why this line of "they do this because they want X" argumentation is intellectually bankrupt. You can just as easily use it to rationalize two mutually exclusive things.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby ralfy » Sat 10 Sep 2016, 22:33:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')
Theoretically sure, but since 1979 I have never seen them do that, always on the side of hyping the fear, never on the side of calm logical decision making.


You're probably referring to another planet, because the last few decades have involved significant growth in consumption, as seen in BRICS and over dozens of emerging markets.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby regardingpo » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 12:49:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SumYunGai', 'E')nnui might not have much to contribute, but that hasn't stopped him from putting up some pretty impressive numbers lately. What he lacks in quality, he now makes up for in shear quantity of posts.

Image

This site is currently experiencing an ennui glut! Hopefully 34 posts in one day will constitute the all time peak. I wonder what caused ennui's production numbers to suddenly spike so uncontrollably?


Post of the year! It's just too funny whichever way I look at it.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 16:17:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')
Theoretically sure, but since 1979 I have never seen them do that, always on the side of hyping the fear, never on the side of calm logical decision making.


You're probably referring to another planet, because the last few decades have involved significant growth in consumption, as seen in BRICS and over dozens of emerging markets.


I have no idea how you got there from anything I have ever posted on this group. Were you aiming at someone else and quoted me by mistake?
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 21:27:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')I have no idea how you got there from anything I have ever posted on this group. Were you aiming at someone else and quoted me by mistake?


Increased sales of cell phones, computers, cars, condo units, fashion accessories, pop music, movies, etc., worldwide during the past few decades were not brought about by hyping fear but by doing the opposite.

That's because hyping fear turns off investors and consumers, and that may lead to lower sales of goods and services that advertisers promote in the same MSM.

This explains why most people worldwide are not overly concerned with global warming, peak oil, and global financial crises. They believe that these are either not true, hyped, or can easily be solved by governments, big business, science, and technology through technofixes, "game changers," and "breakthroughs." This also explains why they know more about celebrities, the latest gadgets, etc.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 21:58:31

I would add that Media hypes The War on Terrorism over these more pernicious limits to growth problems, so that is fear but misdirected
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby ennui2 » Mon 12 Sep 2016, 00:01:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '
')Increased sales of cell phones, computers, cars, condo units, fashion accessories, pop music, movies, etc., worldwide during the past few decades were not brought about by hyping fear but by doing the opposite.


Advertising only goes so far. People bought this stuff because they wanted it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '
')That's because hyping fear turns off investors and consumers, and that may lead to lower sales of goods and services that advertisers promote in the same MSM.


Wrong. Fear gets people to TUNE IN. Eyeballs = ad dollars.

That's how Fox news works, for instance. It's a fear/outrage machine.

The 24 hour news cycle mostly works this way, pumping up an everpresent state of panic/outrage in order to keep you glued to the channel.

Outside of GMA wake-up programming, posting happy news about flowers and bunnies doesn't get you ratings. People won't see ads if they are bored to death. The only thing that gets people to watch the news is sensationalism of some sort.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby ralfy » Mon 12 Sep 2016, 23:53:38

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Re: How real is real

Unread postby SumYunGai » Tue 13 Sep 2016, 01:29:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I') would add that Media hypes The War on Terrorism over these more pernicious limits to growth problems, so that is fear but misdirected

Good point onlooker. The misdirection is the key. They only hype certain types of fears.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'T')hat's how Fox news works, for instance. It's a fear/outrage machine.

Faux News pumps up fear of/outrage at climate scientists, democrats, liberals, communists, environmentalists, Darwinian evolutionists, gays, intellectuals, and anyone who they think might want to take their guns away. They don't cover the rising threat of total systemic collapse. You don't hear them saying: "And now let's break away to Shep Smith for the latest on the newly formed Triangle of Doom", do you? Laura Ingram hasn't mentioned the Etp model, or thermodynamic limits generally, even once. Neither has Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, or even Alan Colmes.

All of the so called mainstream news is basically fake, too.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby ennui2 » Tue 13 Sep 2016, 10:32:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SumYunGai', 'Y')ou don't hear them saying: "And now let's break away to Shep Smith for the latest on the newly formed Triangle of Doom", do you? Laura Ingram hasn't mentioned the Etp model, or thermodynamic limits generally, even once.


They don't mention ETP because it's a cockamamie theory.

As for other (real) forms of doom, I direct you to this other thread.

the-msm-does-cover-doom-t72798.html

Not all MSM is created equal.
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby vox_mundi » Tue 13 Sep 2016, 15:08:13

Reality is an Illusion ...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/2c/6a/be/2c6abe62353e1140a56744bf69372a0b.jpg[/img] - Image


Public Relations Firm Claims to Have Ghost Written Thousands of Op-Eds in Major U.S. Newspapers

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you have the $ MONEY $, you can create the News

... For a mere $5000, Keybridge offers this service in the PDF: "First, we write a 500-800 word op-ed. Then we place it in one or more newspapers around the country. If we're pitching to a national audience, we guarantee that we'll reach at least 50,000 readers. Includes media monitoring."

There are millions of people with important and new and different things to say who do not have $5000 to spend on saying it.

Additionally, paying $5000 for this service is not simply paying for research or editing. It's paying for the unfair advantage of having your op-ed pitched by people who've built cozy relationships with op-ed page editors, and who in at least some cases used to be op-ed page editors.

Even worse, it's paying for the insider skill of churning out or transforming an op-ed into just the sort of familiar, boring, cookie-cutter columns that clutter up the dying institution of the daily, dead-tree, advertising-and-rewritten-government-statement sheets we call major newspapers.


The Media Should Be Put on Trial for Its 2016 Election Coverage

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/8512593_f260.jpg[/img]

This week the corporate news media business continued it’s unprecedented $2.6 billion free ride to former reality TV star Donald Trump masquerading as a Presidential candidate. The latest defendant to be named in this suit is Matt Lauer, who America is charging with “impersonating a town hall moderator.”

What was NBC thinking – giving a morning-fluff-personality the job of moderating a “serious” National Security Town Hall? Clearly, to NBC, this was opportunity to boost the ratings of its Today Show by having follow-ups with the Town Hall “contestants” and their handlers. By their actions it’s clear that, to NBC, this isn’t an election, it’s a game show/talent show/ratings booster called – "America’s Got Presidential Talent!"

NBC is acting like other corporate entities who have been in the same situation. Think about the tobacco companies denying the danger of their products while creating characters like Joe Camel to sell cigarettes to young people. Think about the oil companies denying climate change in order to sell peak oil. That’s what the media is doing this election – maximizing profits in a diminishing industry.

And is the media living up to this constitutional responsibility? Not by a long shot. Actually, by giving Trump so much free and soft coverage, they are manipulating the election in order to create a “close election” to get the best ratings for their debate and campaign coverage.

Chuck Todd on MTP exposed a CNN poll that put this election as close was skewed +4 R – meaning that the sample was more Republican than Democrat. WTF?! Why is this happening? Close elections are better rated TV. So if there is a charge of rigged elections this year, it is a charge against the media.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n a commentary on his "MTP Daily" show, Todd argued the survey "assumes a lot of things."

"It assumes an electorate that we've never seen before – whites without a college degree appear to make up nearly half of their sample," he said. "In 2012, by the way, whites without a college degree was slightly more than a third of all voters."


The Game of War versus the Game of Life

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')o a lawyer, nothing beats a good game of law.

It stands to reason: law is the game lawyers are trained to play. In law school, the pedagogic emphasis is on “learning to think like a lawyer,” and law students quickly come to understand that law and justice are two quite different things: the law is about rules and precedents, and the careful parsing of words and phrases. Often, the law is precisely what the International Criminal Tribunal’s Appeals Chamber said it shouldn’t be: “the product or slave of logic or intellectual hair-splitting.”

“Justice” is a far messier and more dangerous concept: mention justice, and emotions quickly start running high. This gives lawyers even more incentive to stick to law.

When lawyers talk about war, they like to talk about “armed conflict,” the legal distinctions between international and noninternational armed conflicts, and the legislative definition of “traditional military activities.” Lawyers like to talk about “collateral damage” and “proportionality” and “incidental harm,” and debate the quantum of activity that constitutes “direct participation in hostilities.” To buttress their arguments, lawyers cite other lawyers and legal scholars and judges. They argue by syllogism and analogy, citing past cases and commentaries to prove that the concept of co-belligerency can be mapped onto the newer notion of “associated forces,” or that the newly articulated “unwilling or unable” doctrine merely restates older rules about neutrality.

Somehow, lawyers have come to dominate Washington debates about war, and that's a shame. Legal categories should reflect a society's deepest moral beliefs. But ask a lawyer if something’s a good idea, and odds are he’ll tell you instead whether he thinks it’s legally permissible. If we live today in a world in which everything has become war and the military has become everything, it is partly because far too many top decision makers have spent the last fifteen years playing the game of law, instead of the game of life.

For lawyers, the game of law is safe and rule-bound: he who hews to the law can do no wrong. Whatever is not prohibited is permitted, we reason: if indefinite detention and mass surveillance aren’t clearly illegal, they must be legal. If U.S. targeted killings are not manifestly unlawful, they must be lawful, and if they’re lawful, they needn’t keep us up at night, dreaming of dead and broken bodies.

When you leave the game of law for the game of life, you’re thrown back into the messy world of policy and morality. Suddenly you have to argue about right and wrong, good and evil, fear and hope, cruelty and compassion.

We don’t have to accept a world in which the globe is a battlefield in a boundary-less war that can never end, and law has lost any ability to guide or constrain us. ...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]http://cdn2.btrstatic.com/pics/showpics/large/814773_XErNzhnT.jpg[/img]
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby vox_mundi » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 12:13:00

New Research Uncovers 'One of the Tobacco Industry's Greatest Scams'

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')wo new studies from the Tobacco Control Research Group at the University of Bath, published in the BMJ journal, Tobacco Control, expose evidence that big tobacco companies are still facilitating tobacco smuggling, while attempting to control a global system designed to prevent it, and funding studies that routinely overestimate levels of tobacco smuggling.

The first study, which draws on leaked documents, highlights the elaborate lengths the industry has gone to control a global track and trace system and to undermine a major international agreement - the Illicit Trade Protocol - designed to stop the tobacco industry from smuggling tobacco.

... Leaked documents show the four major transnational tobacco companies hatched a joint plan to use front groups and third parties to promote 'Codentify' to governments and have them believe it was independent of industry and how these plans were operationalised. For example, the study reveals how a supposedly independent company fronted for British American Tobacco (BAT) in a tender for a track and trace system in Kenya.

The study suggests that in order to bolster support for their system and enhance their credibility, Big Tobacco created front groups, poured funding into organisations meant to hold it to account and into initiatives that would curry favour, and paid for misleading data and reports.

... The authors suggest that despite overwhelming evidence of historical complicity in tobacco smuggling and their latest evidence suggesting that tobacco companies are continuing to fuel the illicit trade, the industry now portrays itself as key to solving the problem, presenting its funding of research as an example of its attempts to reduce illicit trade.

Image
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Re: How real is real

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 17:23:58

Thanks for bumping this thread Vox
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