[Novus]

The unemployement rate is calculated with statistical sampling. It is highly flawed and easily manipulated. Payrolls only grew 146,000 which isn't even enough to keep up with population growth. The real unemployment rate is somewhere near 7% in the US.

[ubercynicmeister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'T')he unemployement rate is calculated with statistical sampling. It is highly flawed and easily manipulated. Payrolls only grew 146,000 which isn't even enough to keep up with population growth. The real unemployment rate is somewhere near 7% in the US.

[The_Toecutter]

The unemployment statistic itself in this country is misleading. You're only considered unemployed if you are receiving unemployment aid. When that wears out after a few months, regardless of whether or not you have a job, you're no longer 'unemployed'.

But I can garuntee you the real figure for the amount of people in our workforce without jobs is greater than 6 or 7 percent due to this fallacy alone.

[Specop_007]

The important question isnt "How many are out of work" but rather "How many are choosing to not work"
I can assure you if I am laid off, fired or whatever I could have a job within 3 days TOPS.
But, would I? Do i want to flip burgers or sack your groceries? Do I want to paint houses?
A guy in the IT field working in a A/C'ed office 9-5 making 60k a year is going to have a tough pill to swallow to pick up a paintbrush and work in the 100 degree heat painting houses at 10 bucks an hour.

I think thats the reason alot of people continue to be laid off. They view most work as "below them". It would be interesting to see those types of figures.

[SidneyTawl]

Well the day Speecop becomes the norm for the world,... all our worries are over.

Everyone change opinions and lifestyles and do what your told right now.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SidneyTawl', 'W')ell the day Speecop becomes the norm for the world,... all our worries are over.
Everyone change opinions and lifestyles and do what your told right now.

[SidneyTawl]

You fail to see that you may find a job. But was that job a NEW job or was it one created by someone that was fired.
You are only merely replacing someone. You're job has done nothing to increase employment.
The statistic bear out that we aren't producing enough jobs to cover the number of workers IN and ENTERING the workforce.
The statistics also include a "figure" that includes the people that have not only given and not being reported, that perhaps they must of found employement by self employement and they are added back to the roles.
hmm, crack sellin may now be an employment statistic

[ECM]

One of the more interestng numbers I have come across is workforce participation. This is the percentage of people that can work that are actively working/seeking employment or on unemployment. Last I checked it the number was down 1.5% since Bush has taken office. That means 2-3 million people in the U.S. have left the workforce and are not considered in unemployment statistics.

[MonteQuest]

And to make matters worse, these new jobs are mostly a result of the real estate bubble.
Boom in Jobs, Not Just Houses, as Real Estate Drives Economy$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')ncompassing everything from land surveyors to general contractors to loan officers, the sprawling sector has added 700,000 jobs to the nation's payrolls over the last four years, according to an analysis by Economy.com, a research firm.
Combined, the rest of the economy has lost nearly 400,000 jobs over the same span, which stretches back to the start of the most recent recession, in 2001.
For all its benefits, the newfound power of real estate has also left the country vulnerable to a housing slowdown, which many economists expect over the next few years.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SidneyTawl', 'Y')ou fail to see that you may find a job. But was that job a NEW job or was it one created by someone that was fired.
You are only merely replacing someone. You're job has done nothing to increase employment.
The statistic bear out that we aren't producing enough jobs to cover the number of workers IN and ENTERING the workforce.
The statistics also include a "figure" that includes the people that have not only given and not being reported, that perhaps they must of found employement by self employement and they are added back to the roles.
hmm, crack sellin may now be an employment statistic

[Tyler_JC]

Specop_007 is 100% right and SidneyTawl is 100% right.
The reason we have high unemployment is that people who have recently been laid off (the IT guy) refuse to do minimum wage work. These causes labor shortatges in the low skill sector and unemployment among the talented.
Sidney believes that a "good job" is a right to be provided by civilization.
Specop_007 believes that "good jobs" don't magically appear and that unemployment is caused by people refusing to work at "bad jobs".

Sidney does not believe that an IT person should have to do a $7 an hour job.
Specop has a worldview that can't understand why someone would rather not work than have a "bad job".
This is another fight between philosophies/ideologies/world views that won't resolved by more posts from either side.
It is impossible for Sidney to accept a talented person working as an underployed laborer.
And it is equally impossible for Specop to understand Sidney point of view.

To understand each other's philosophy would mean surrendering one's world view and since humans never engage in such actions (if they can avoid it), this conversation is over.

[SidneyTawl]

Tyler,
only partly right. I djon;'t believe anyone is quaranteed anything.
I pointed out also that job availablitiy does not mean that someone can afford to have that job.
As speeky points out. not enough migrant labor. Migrant is the key word here.
People laid off, and you also expect them to leave their homes and valuables and become migrant workers. That also "costs" them. They "lose" money in this situation, "to have a job"> That does not compute. You can't move the foul line to make a foul bar fair "Roger Marris".

Again is the job posted a new job or an old job. Its an old job. Filling it does not mean that employment went up does it. Because someone had to leave and go unemployed for the job to be available. That person is now unemployed. Spec has a job because of that.
Call it what you may, but job availabitily does not compute into there are enough jobs for everyone. As unemployment increases there will be competetion for jobs, People will pull up stakes and maybe live in their cars. And jobs will come and go in a depression. Quickly snapped up, gone, then a waiting period.
Spec is saying he can get a job anytime. ANYTIME and I disagree with that. I believe he also means in the future and when peak etc. hits.

In my city if the major employer closes will even there be enough jobs of the "pickin" kind for even the most desperate.
Gotta doubt it.
When this "canary" goes in my town. Man its going to be something. And its not to far away from being close to that, and its going to surprise a lot of people.

[SchroedingersCat]

I was an unemployed IT guy for about 2 years in the post 9-11/dot-com bust era. Since I was 12 I've worked in just about every type of job from busboy to retail to arts administrator to VP of an international dot-com.

I was out of work, my wife was pregnant, and savings were going fast. I applied for everything in my skill set. Know how many people want to hire someone who is overqualified for the job? Zilch! I couldn't get that Comp-USA sales job or that line cook spot or that sys admin position. Not because I didn't want to work. Not because I couldn't do the work. Because they wanted someone who wouldn't rock the boat or try and change things or 'leave when something better came along.' Yeah, that's good business practice.

As far as picking crops: here in California there is some serious competition to get those jobs. And your average farmer is not hiring some white, english-speaking rabble rouser to do a Cesar Chavez on his other workers.

When there are more workers than jobs, employers can afford to be as picky as they wish.

[Specop_007]

Tyler, I almost agree with you 100%.
SidneyTroll is not 100% right, jobs are not a 1 for 1 deal. Just because one guy loses his job doesnt mean another guy gains a job, and vice versa.

[Yamaha_R6]

Hey.. i dont think most people went through 12 years of education, 16 if you went to college, to pick strawberries for a living.

If they offered my 20$ per hour to do it, then yes i would. But they just dont offer enough money to do that kind of work.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Yamaha_R6', 'H')ey.. i dont think most people went through 12 years of education, 16 if you went to college, to pick strawberries for a living.

If they offered my 20$ per hour to do it, then yes i would. But they just dont offer enough money to do that kind of work.

[Yamaha_R6]

Wouldn't work. There is no point. If things ever got that bad that even with a graduate degree I could only find work flipping burgers I would run for the hills and use savings to stockpile resouces. At that point peak oil is about to destroy everything anyways. Looks like we are nearing that point.

[Yamaha_R6]

BTW.. i dont consider those kind of "jobs" to be really jobs at all. I define a job as a position in which one can work at in order to make a living. What kind of living can you make at 8 dollars an hour? Here in SD the average house costs 550,000$. The only people who can realistically work at those wages are mexicans and kids. The adults working at Vons are unionized and are making decent money. Of course even those jobs are getting harder to get now.

[The_Toecutter]

There's so many goddamn jobs available that for the past two months I've been spending at least an hour a day filling out and sending in application forms and not one hit yet. I've tried minimum wage jobs at burger places, even, anywhere.
Past two months, literally hundreds of applications filled out. Not one success. I don't know how it is in the rest of this country, but the job market SUCKS where I live.

[MD]

What has really happened in America?
In the 1950's and 1960's, a "common laborer" could expect to get a manufacturing job, and with it support his family, buy a house, send his kids to college, and even expect a decent pension!

That type of option has mostly become a thing of the past. Today the laborer entering the market, even in Union America, is lucky to be able stay above the national poverty level, with minimal benefits and no company sponsored pension plan.
The only avenues to reach prosperity from poverety today are advanced college degrees or entrepreneurialism. And like Eurpope, free entrepreneurialism is slowly being legislated and taxed away in this country.
It looks like we are headed for a two-class society.