[SeaGypsy]

Since they are not likely to get pregnant Zika isnt much concern for the time being. If you are comfortable with your transition from transitioner to suburban sniper so be it. I didnt see the process, only what you posted here.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'I') can feel the topic drifting by the minute. Attitudes about guns are a separate issue.

[Newfie]

I have 4 children aged 39 to 24. I have, so far, 4 grand children. 15 to 1.

Not sure what your point is?

[SeaGypsy]

He was alluding to childlessness being the dominant status of posters here as a reason most have been able to make radical life changes- inference being a single dad of a teenage daughter is a pass on being able to do anything except sniping on doomers. How he pulls this off while being simultaneously an ultra doomer himself turns my mind into a pretzel. I'm pretty sure mos has a massive chip on his shoulder about failing at transition a few years back, when it mattered to him. Now he prefers to just knock & snipe over timelines, some kind of self comforting mechanism.

[ennui2]

SeaGypsy, if you want to go out of your way to bash other doomers who aren't prepping as much as they should in order to be able to walk the talk, why aren't you bashing Pops for abandoning his farm? Maybe he should try to survive without insulin while he's at it, since he won't likely get any when TSHTF? He can't be a REAL doomer unless he's running around in a hair-shirt and spear, right?

Doom or no doom, how many of us can claim to have made all our dreams come true and have no more mountains to climb? All we can do is make the best decisions we can as we go along.

And by and large, I don't slag other doomers based on their chosen lifestyle. I slag their predictions and monochromatic/hypocritical politics. If Newfie wants to live on a boat or PStarr wants to live behind the redwood curtain, more power to them. However, if they want to put forth the idea that you MUST do X, Y, or Z or you can't get your merit badge and need to be kicked out of the club, I'm going to protest, because it's childish school-yard bullying bullshit.

[AdamB]

I think PO was an absolutely wonderful mechanism for doomers to use, to justify whatever manner of prepping they desired. PO is wonderful for explaining to the wife and family why a bunker is needed, or gold collection, guns and ammo, almost any prepping can be configured as a personal "solution" to the horrors that PO was supposed to induce.

So sure, some might really wanted it to happen, so they could then say 1) I told you so or 2) feel good about their support of BAU as they bought and hoarded stuff. Like that reality TV show where people use coupons to get $1000 in paper towls and toothpaste for $5, and then you see the shelving they have in the garage or basement where they stand there, staring, just so happy they have a years supply of paper towels. Doom can be sort of like that.

But those who really WANT it, as opposed to just collecting some stuff, are by definition misanthropes. Because doom, as compared to PO, involves having a hope that most people will just die. Starvation, war, disease, doesn't matter HOW, but really wanting doom to happen involves rooting for the death of your own species because...you just don't like them. Or perhaps even yourself? Isn't that sort of the homophobe angle, afraid of something because deep down we are concerned we are like them?

[SeaGypsy]

Mos, I did have a go at Pops about being dictated to by his other half, it came up same time as a bunch of us were broaching relationship vs lifestyle choices. Ibon looked like moving from the cloud forest for a while. I have had to compromise my preps heaps for my wife & kids & we have broken up a few times over it. I don't really have a problem with your life choice, just with the mode of mockery with a broad brush, comes across as arrogant condescension- which is not really an honest reflection from a position of compromise. Its OK to want to be in a better place, or situation. I agree with you about the psychological pitfalls of the doom market- bad prediction etc, but I think it's a very fine line people need to walk to find their way & a bit of sensitivity helps more than snarky critique.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'I') think PO was an absolutely wonderful mechanism for doomers to use, to justify whatever manner of prepping they desired. PO is wonderful for explaining to the wife and family why a bunker is needed, or gold collection, guns and ammo, almost any prepping can be configured as a personal "solution" to the horrors that PO was supposed to induce.

So sure, some might really wanted it to happen, so they could then say 1) I told you so or 2) feel good about their support of BAU as they bought and hoarded stuff. Like that reality TV show where people use coupons to get $1000 in paper towls and toothpaste for $5, and then you see the shelving they have in the garage or basement where they stand there, staring, just so happy they have a years supply of paper towels. Doom can be sort of like that.

But those who really WANT it, as opposed to just collecting some stuff, are by definition misanthropes. Because doom, as compared to PO, involves having a hope that most people will just die. Starvation, war, disease, doesn't matter HOW, but really wanting doom to happen involves rooting for the death of your own species because...you just don't like them. Or perhaps even yourself? Isn't that sort of the homophobe angle, afraid of something because deep down we are concerned we are like them?

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')
But those who really WANT it, as opposed to just collecting some stuff, are by definition misanthropes. Because doom, as compared to PO, involves having a hope that most people will just die. Starvation, war, disease, doesn't matter HOW, but really wanting doom to happen involves rooting for the death of your own species because...you just don't like them. Or perhaps even yourself? Isn't that sort of the homophobe angle, afraid of something because deep down we are concerned we are like them?

[onlooker]

I would think that it is analogous to being the parent of someone who has taken the wrong path, let us say criminal or into drugs. You want that person to get help because you do not want that person to hurt others or himself/herself. Even if that help involves doing time in jail or being interned in a drug rehabilitation center. It means you not only value your child you also value other people. Or as Ibon states values the glorious creation of life and ecosystems.

[Newfie]

The way Ibon, yeah. You and Farley Mowat, that's an heart felt complement.

I'll add this wrinkle. Do I want doom? Doom WILL happen. If it happens soon something like 6 billion will die. If it happens in say 100 years 11 billion will die. Which is better?

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'w')anting doom to happen involves rooting for the death of your own species because...you just don't like them. Or perhaps even yourself? Isn't that sort of the homophobe angle, afraid of something because deep down we are concerned we are like them?

[ralfy]

Given what has been taking place in various countries the last decade or so, it is no longer possible to still speculate on the effects of peak oil.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'I') think PO was an absolutely wonderful mechanism for doomers to use, to justify whatever manner of prepping they desired. PO is wonderful for explaining to the wife and family why a bunker is needed, or gold collection, guns and ammo, almost any prepping can be configured as a personal "solution" to the horrors that PO was supposed to induce.

So sure, some might really wanted it to happen, so they could then say 1) I told you so or 2) feel good about their support of BAU as they bought and hoarded stuff. Like that reality TV show where people use coupons to get $1000 in paper towls and toothpaste for $5, and then you see the shelving they have in the garage or basement where they stand there, staring, just so happy they have a years supply of paper towels. Doom can be sort of like that.

But those who really WANT it, as opposed to just collecting some stuff, are by definition misanthropes. Because doom, as compared to PO, involves having a hope that most people will just die. Starvation, war, disease, doesn't matter HOW, but really wanting doom to happen involves rooting for the death of your own species because...you just don't like them. Or perhaps even yourself? Isn't that sort of the homophobe angle, afraid of something because deep down we are concerned we are like them?

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')You do have to consider that the motive may come from a love of natural ecosystems that in your lifetime you have seen destroyed and that you want the die off not for the extinction of your species but for your species to find its balanced place in the community of life.

[Timo]

Nothing is exclusive in being a doomer, or a prepper, or an optimist, or a pessimist, or a sadist, hedonist, or even altruist. Every mindset, and every activity based on that mindset, does have an eventual limit. It's all just a matter of degrees.

Speaking of degrees, there is a good, hefty portion of humanity that appears to have reached their limit with their tolerance of AGW. Several global summits have been held through the past couple of decades trying to collectively solve our pending doom. They were all based on popular demand (and scientific evidence that feeds the popular demand). Our hedonistic ways, in a matter of degrees, are being curbed as we speak. We are beginning to see the consequences of our ways, and people do not feel the means justify the end.

My pessimism tells me we're too late.

My optimism tells me I could be wrong.

My realism tells me to pay attention to what I'm doing right now, and to act as responsibly as I can for the sake of our future. Sure, I could do more to lessen my own personal impact on the planet, but at what personal cost? I will not commit suicide to save the planet.

It's all a matter of degrees for each and every one of us.

[onlooker]

I disagree with categorizing Doomers as pessimistic. While some may be it is not a forgone conclusion. Besides the word doomer itself maybe be a misnomer. I do not consider myself a doomer but a realist. We are living in very turbulent times and the trends and ongoing circumstances point to a world that is too overpopulated, doing too much damage to the biosphere and too preoccupied with living the "good" life. So all this points to dramatic consequences to not just our species but most living species as the girding of life support systems are being undermined and that cannot but lead to die-off as in fact is already occurring among many species on Earth and eventually inevitably will happen to us.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'G')iven what has been taking place in various countries the last decade or so, it is no longer possible to still speculate on the effects of peak oil.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')I would venture, with zero proof (and knowing I might get bashed for mentioning it, but that is alright, because I am willing to admit ignorance here) that doomer and optimism are mutually exclusive.Just as a mental exercise and allowing myself to be freely bashed for not being smart enough to figure out (without help) how I might be wrong here.

[onlooker]

Yes that is true what Ennui states and it takes self honesty and integrity to admit one is wrong. It also takes an open mind and an inquisitive one to constantly search out the truth and information to bolster one's arguments or to come to certain sound conclusions. So yes we should all humbly debate knowing we do not know everything.