[ROCKMAN]

Guilt-aversion from a man like ennui who makes his money from burning fossil fuels and producing GHG. LOL

[ROCKMAN]

pstarr - "...against perceived enemies ..." You know what they say: you're not really paranoid if "they" are really after you. Beside I find it easier to get the upper hand on imaginary enemies the real ones. LOL.

[Lore]

I believe ennui essentially has it right. Otherwise it's just putting the cart before the horse. Those using fossil fuels are in the cart. Just a matter of changing horses.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')Sorry Lore, it doesn't work that way in the real world. Those using fossil fuels are in the drivers seat. Guys like RM are just innocent ingenues along for the ride. "Oh please don't touch me. I have my honor." Blush.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')f RM didn't make the stuff for the user. Someone else would.

It's not ass backward, it is basic economics. Apparently in your world supply necessarily creates demand? So I could simply wrap up a rock in sturdy pretty packaging and you would have to buy it. Wow. I am a rich man. Can I have you credit card #. We take paypal. Returns not accepted.

[dohboi]

"If RM didn't make the stuff for the user. Someone else would."

The refuge of scoundrels.

"If I didn't rape here, somebody else would have."

If you reject the latter, you must reject the former, and all other instances of such gutter morality.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') know what you two mean. You two are stuck having to drive your cars and you hate it. And you need to lash out at somebody. That sad. But common I guess.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')If it were up to me I'd build the pipeline and leave the oil companies alone, but then as far as govt supports I'd fund green tech.

[dohboi]

I mostly bike and walk. Nice try at a red herring, though.

"we still need fossil fuel energy"

What makes you think any of the oil piped through Keystone would have gone to 'us'--the whole point was to get it across the US so that it could be processed on the Gulf and shipped overseas to the highest bidder.

Meanwhile, here's some red meat for all you obsessive Obama haters:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... ate-legacy

By rejecting Keystone, President Obama cements his climate legacy

The Obama Administration made the right decision to reject the Keystone XL project


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..When we look back, the Obama Administration will be acknowledged as the first Administration to take climate change seriously.

It is the first Administration that started to bend the curve of emissions.

It is the first Administration that ushered the U.S. into the new energy economy.

For my students and my children, who may end up working in the solar and wind industries, this president is the one that gave them the chance to bring energy to our homes in a way that didn’t warm the climate.

Presidents do matter.

Thank you President Obama.

[dohboi]

And: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... 109?page=2

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')i]Do you think this decision will be a big part of [Obama's] legacy on climate?

I do. I think it's a huge part, because everything else, most of it, is sort of promises and pledges for the future that other people have to achieve.

He's the first world leader to stop a big project because of its effect on the climate — that's a real legacy, and one that will reverberate all over the world.

I think this is a really important moment, not just for Keystone, but in a much larger sense. And I think the proof of that is, in the wake of this battle over Keystone, every fossil fuel project around the world now is facing the same kind of resistance. As one industry executive said this year, there's been a Keystone-ization of every other pipeline, coal mine and fracking well — and that's a very good thing.

[Synapsid]

dohboi,

You do understand that oil shipped on the northern leg of Keystone XL would have joined the oil that is already being shipped to the refineries on the Gulf Coast that have bought it?

Yes, the refineries would have processed it into refined products like gasoline and diesel and such, and yes, they would then have sold those products to their markets, just like the other oil coming down from Canada, and just like they have been doing right along.

The purpose of the northern leg of KXL was the same as the purpose of the other pipelines carrying Canadian oil to the Gulf Coast refineries.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')Sorry Lore, it doesn't work that way in the real world. Those using fossil fuels are in the drivers seat. Guys like RM are just innocent ingenues along for the ride. "Oh please don't touch me. I have my honor." Blush.

[dohboi]

"Yes, the refineries would have processed it into refined products like gasoline and diesel and such, and yes, they would then have sold those products to their markets..."

Yup, that's what I was saying. Glad we can agree here.

[Tanada]

The climate legacy of President Obama is one of failure after failure. Personally I had great hopes when the Democrat party took the Presidency that we would see a lot of Environmental improvements. Instead we have had 7 years of lip service with almost no actual measurable progress. So much could have been done, but wasn't. Rhetoric does not help anything except appearance over substance.

[ROCKMAN]

If dohboi et al didn't use the stuff then Rockman wouldn't have a job looking for it...nor would anyone else. But even if dohboi didn't use the stuff other consumers would so it doesn't make any difference if he didn't produce GHG by consuming hydrocarbons...it would still happen anyway. So he continues participating in the process.

The refuge of scoundrels. Kinda like gang rape mentality: the fossil fuels are going to get burned by other consumers anyway so why not participate. LOL.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')he climate legacy of President Obama is one of failure after failure. Personally I had great hopes when the Democrat party took the Presidency that we would see a lot of Environmental improvements. Instead we have had 7 years of lip service with almost no actual measurable progress. So much could have been done, but wasn't. Rhetoric does not help anything except appearance over substance.