[pup55]

1495:
You use a variety of fishing methods, handed down in your tribe for generation after generation. You use equipment fabricated out of local materials: dip nets, fish traps, clubs, fishing line and fishhooks, and your method varies depending on the species of fish, the time of year, and the needs of the tribe. You are well aware of what happens if you take too many fish out of the ecosystem, because it happens every few years, and causes a lot of suffering among your people as they slowly and painfully starve to death around you, so as a result, you are careful not to overfish. You bring the kids with you (even babies) and let them play in the water while you fish.

1935:
Thanks to fish and game laws enacted in the beginning of the century, you are no longer able to use your favorite fishing method, namely, dropping a stick of dynamite into the lake and having the explosion knock out as many fish as you need. While you wait outside the textile mill trying to get work, you send the kids (ages 7 and 5) down to the river to catch dinner. They fabricate fishing poles out of local vegetation, but you buy braided cotton fishing line and hooks from the general store, because they work a little better. They seine up their own minnows to use for bait. Since fish are plentiful, you and the kids are able to keep food on the table on the days that you are not able to buy food, or shoot a squirrel or rabbit. If they catch any extra, you throw them into the cistern and keep them for tomorrow. If they do not catch any fish, you eat whatever they do catch, including freshwater clams, crawfish, frogs legs, turtle, or whatever.

1960:
You and your child Opie walk a mile or so to the fishing hole outside of town with your factory-made rods and reels. You stop along the way to dig worms somewhere. You do not care what kind of fish you catch, and you are not dependent on them for food, so this is just for fun. If you are lucky, you catch a couple of fish, which you bring home to Aunt Bea to fry for dinner, along with potatoes and beans from your garden. (You do not really have to have a garden, but you plant one just because that’s what people do.) Occasionally, your uncle Barney lets you use his wooden rowboat, which he has built from local materials and/or surplus marine plywood from WWII. By 1970, this fishing hole will be shut down due to mercury and dioxin discharge from the nearby textile mill. By 1990, Opie’s hair falls out, but he seems to have shown no other effects from the mercury.

2005:
You get into your Ford F150 pickup (12 mpg) and drive 30 miles to the local reservoir, built as part of a massive construction project in the ‘60’s by the US Army Corps of Engineers. You launch your $35,000 bass boat, which you bought on credit. The boat has a 200 hp motor, which uses about 4 gallons of premium gas per hour. You drive around the lake at 71 mph, and use your electronic fish finder to locate a school of fish. The fish were stocked in the lake by the State Department of Natural Resources, and are a non-native species which cannot reproduce on their own. You use factory-made artificial lures, plastic monofilament line, and a fiberglass and plastic fishing pole. If, and it is a big if, you catch anything, you are a “sportsman” and throw it back. On the way home, you drive through Wendy’s. You do not take your kid with you. He is only 14 and is not ready to fish yet.

Quiz:
a. Which of these types of fishing is sustainable?
b. How long would today’s city-slickers survive using any of the above fishing methods to get food?
c. How long would the “fisherman” of 2005 survive using any of the previous methods to get food?
d. Given the 100-fold increase in human population, how long would it take the fish population to be depleted in the event large number of city slickers having to take to nature to try to survive using the 1495 technology?
e. In event of a crisis, how long would it take for people to start to ignore fishing regulations and start fishing with electrodes, big nets and dynamite again?
f. Note the role of the kids in each fishing method. How may generations will it take for the whole system to break down if the kids continue to have no connection with nature whatsoever?

[Doly]

I would add:
g. How many fish are actually available in today's rivers? How many people could they possibly feed?
h. What is the likelihood of poisoning from eating those fish?

[TheSupplyGuy]

I know it's a minor point, but the Andy Griffin show was filmed in Mayberry, North Carolina.
That is an important point. I've been fishing before because my stepdad is avid about it, and I seriously doubt I could catch anything before the 1960 story(maybe I could hack 1935, but definitely not 1495). Fish are probably the east meat you can harvest (no huge grazing fields required, doesn't take long for them to grow, etc.), and we're effectively destroying them with mercury or radiation.

[pup55]

d'oh

Well, you get the point. Most of the foreigners on this website have no idea of the concept of Mayberry or Ron Howard anyway so it probably went right over their heads.

You are right about these freshwater fish in general being good and an easy source of food. I have looked into the issue of catfish farming, for example, and with the exception of the processing ("cleaning" to you and me), it appears to be fairly idiot proof even on a small scale if you have a flat piece of land, and some running water, and do not screw up the area with nasty runoff or something. Most of this stuff is done in Mississippi and southern Alabama.

Doly has a point about the state of the habitat in a lot of the rivers in the nation. I was just reading a website about loss of fish species and numbers in the great lakes region and also the pacific northwest and it's pretty extreme. It will be a miracle if we can make it another 50 years.

[RiverRat]

2005 :
graphite rod with a boron skim wrap and a carbon butt wrap.
aircraft aluminum baitcast reel with composite magnesium face and titanium line guide.
spectra fiber braided fishing line.
hand crafted custom painted Japanese crank bait.

Just a few items on my ‘wish list’


I live within walking distance to a major river system (hence my screen name – RiverRat). My experience with river systems is that they are cyclical in nature. A high spring water level that persists for many days suppresses a spawn. A few years in row and the fishery is affected. Also, any abnormal amount of toxins discharged into the system affects the baitfish which in turn affects the prey fish. Local manufactures are notorious for dumping toxins during times when the water levels are above normal. Their logic is the increase in water flow will ‘dilute their dump’.

There is a ‘one meal per week’ statewide advisory enacted in 2005 (Ohio).
Some species are ‘one meal per month or even one meal per two months’
Primarily restrictions revolve around PCB’s levels and to a lesser degree Mercury.

If things go ‘mad max’ … at best I could feed my family once a week or possibly once ever 5 days (with smaller fish that have not been exposed to the degree of the larger fish).

[Barbara]

Italian fishermen announced a one week strike. Reason: price of diesel gas to power their boats is so high they can't cover expenses anymore.
They blame price of diesel over italian govt. and taxes.

No fish in restaurants next week... fishes are very happy.

[KevO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', '
')No fish in restaurants next week... fishes are very happy.

[thor]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'I')talian fishermen announced a one week strike. Reason: price of diesel gas to power their boats is so high they can't cover expenses anymore.
They blame price of diesel over italian govt. and taxes.

No fish in restaurants next week... fishes are very happy.

[Eli]

Thor I promise you we are all in this together.

If we are seeing PO the US economy will crash. It really is over do for a big correction.

[I_Like_Plants]

Fish are friends, tasty, tasty, friends.

I wonder when the break even point will be where sailboats are more econically feasable than power boats for fishing? You catch less fish, because you can't tear around all over hell and gone as easily. But, the water stays cleaner, no fuel costs (but occasionally someone has to sit down with the waxed linen and sailor's palm lol) and the rejuvenation of fish stocks may make sailing really pay off after a while.

I'm just a big admirer of sailboats

I'd say the difference is something like my dumping the car and going over to all-bike transportation. Slower, can't carry a huge load but most of the time my "catch" was not that big anyway, carryable by bike, and it's nice to the environment!

[thor]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'F')ish are friends, tasty, tasty, friends.

I wonder when the break even point will be where sailboats are more econically feasable than power boats for fishing?

[antspice]

i havent seen significant mention of fishing yet, fish are very nutritious and generally very good for your health.
You'll probably have more or less succes with fish depending on where and with what. Maintaining fishing poles would be important unless you plan to construct new ones every day and you also need a litle bait. Some areas (poisoned by for example industry) may not hold good fish.

edit: fishing poles are mostly for hobbyists, examples like nets are for more effïcïent (professional) fishing activitys.

[TorrKing]

There are plenty of methods of fishing. Pole fishing probably being one of the least effective. Fishing traps and nets are much better. Buy them now, while they still are rediculously cheap!

Any fish is edible (unless as you say, polluted). Some fish may have poisonous parts, but that is very few species. Eel has poisonous blood, but the poison is destroyed by cooking. Fish normally not considered food may be better tasting than you think. Also eat their organs, eggs and sperm for additional minerals, fat and vitamins.

And remember, it is better with a lake full of small fish than a lake with big fish. Smaller fish have more potential production as they convert a greater deal of the biomass in the lake into usable food. But heavy fishing will inevetably increase the size of the fish after some time.

Torjus Gaaren

[scw86]

Fish are one of the more nutritional foods with high amounts essential oils that are important in diet. However as you mentioned, fish have also been found to absorb a large proportion of industrial pollutions. All the petrol chemicals we use in industry, whether it be plastic additives or insecticides have been found to be getting into water supplies. Once these chemicals get into rivers they make their way down to the oceans and lakes and build up in fish. The EPA does not recommend eating fish more than once a week.

http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/fishadvice/advice.html

So it wouldn't be a good idea to make fish a large part of your diet. Especially as mankind becomes more belligerent and turns to more polluting ways to keep our lifestyle going. Heavier coal use will probably supplement the decline in oil.

[skiwi]

Caught a couple of 3lb trout and numerous pan sized ones 5 mins from the front door over the last 6 months
Spent last Wednesday fishing for Kawhai an 18 minute drive away at the river mouth the last 8 mins along the sand in the suv
On the bike it'll be a 30 minute ride and a 20 minute walk including wading across the tidal inlet as a shortcut
Caught over 30 between 6 of us in 2 hours with several over 6lb and the smallest about 2lb
Currently waiting for the moon and tide to line up for some night fishing in the surf for snapper and rig
Next couple of months should also see plenty of good action with sea run trout and the chance of a salmon
And plenty of flounder to be caught in the estuary when we get our net set up

Hers a pic of my boys out with some friends setting up in the estuary

[pup55]

Comments:

a. Most of the time here in the US the lakes are stocked artificially to keep the fish population at a fun level. Some of these little guys reproduce and maintain something approaching a stable population.

But you have to worry about whether this activity will continue post-peak, and if not, what kind of fish population will occur naturally.

b. One of the reasons there are plenty of fish, even little ones, is that there really aren't that many people fishing, in the grand scheme of things.
This source:
fishing stats
seems to suggest that there are 34 million fisherpeople in the US, which is not quite 15% of the population, but I would venture to guess that most of these go out only a couple of times per year. So, if fishing became a subsistence activity, a lot more people would have to do it and this would put pressure on fish population as they became a bigger part of the food chain.

Also note the decreasing number of youth 18 to 24 that fish. This does not surprise me personally. The average subscriber to Bassmaster magazine is 51.

c. Fishing is seasonal in a lot of places in the US. Better in spring, sometimes not worth a flip in the fall, ice fishing is not for everybody.

So if you are depending on this for a food source, better figure out a way to store and/or preserve your excess catch to tide you over on a lean day.

According to the depression-hardened elders in my family it was common if you had a good day to throw the extra fish into your rainwater collection system for a day or two until you get around to eating them.


d. I echo the above poster's comments on the issue of the fishing pole being a pretty inefficient way to catch fish. If there were a lot of people out trying to catch fish to live, there would be a lot more people using other lethal ways to do it. Example: shockers that will shock the little guys up, or poisons of various types. These weapons of mass fish destruction will put even more pressure on the fish population. Also, you have to ask the question post-peak about how good of a job the enforcement people will do in keeping the hillbillies from doing this sort of thing. It's kind of marginal right now.

e. One of the drivers of fish population is the amount of runoff from activities upstream, i.e. farming, that discharges stuff into the water that kills or promotes algae. Right now this is a problem in the midwest where all of the agricultural runoff is happening. This might be better or worse for fishing in a post-armageddon scenario. Also note that it might be easier for anyone who can keep a factory running to go back to their former polluting days (ex: cuyahoga river in the 70's) with minimal and/or corruption influenced enforcement of antipollution laws.

f. If you have a farm, and can build a farm pond, you can cut down on some of the suspense and adventure of this by maintaining your own little aquaculture. This is a fairly common practice in some parts of the country, such as Texas (in the years that they get rain). (In texas, they are called "tanks" for some reason.) If you can defend this little farm pond from poachers, and keep it from being overfished, you might even make a couple of bucks by charging people to fish there.

g. when it comes down to it, you are better off knowing how to fish, rather than not.

h. Example on TV from New Orleans: During all the rioting, when people were dashing out of the stores after looting the big screen tv's, etc. there was a picture of a guy carrying out a couple of fishing poles. We thought this was probably the smartest guy down there. At least he had a chance at an ongoing source of food.

[TorrKing]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Torjus', ' ')But heavy fishing will inevetably increase the size of the fish after some time.

[truecougarblue]

This is a topic dear to my heart, as I plan on putting in a pond this year on the ranch. I'd come to the conclusion that tilapia would be my best bet, since I like to eat them and they are veggie eaters.

Question, I've looked for a place to buy some live hatchlings, can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance,

[scw86]

The last time I heard the mass amounts of fertilizer runoff cause red tides. This happens when the algae over populates the water and starves the water of oxygen killing in fish in the area.