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Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby dinopello » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 12:17:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'I')n this case it sounds like simple vengeance for his perception of being abandoned. He really didn't spend a lot of time building a cause. More a lash out from the internal conflict of a sick mind.


The sick mind as was mentioned applies to all. Of the shooters in their teens through twenties, it does seem like the seeking of notoriety due to a feeling of being apart/shunned from society is a factor - and many (including the most recent) seem to have high levels of sexual frustration. The Louisiana movie theatre shooter seemed to have more of a political cause mixed in, which I'm not sure the younger shooters had as much. The Louisiana shooter was also older.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Plantagenet » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 12:25:28

Its all starting to come out---just as I predicted.

Like many of the other shooters, the Oregon shooting was mentally ill. Like many of the other shooters, the Oregon shooter was ALREADY being treated for his mental illness. Like other shooters, the Oregon shooter was taking powerful psychotropic drugs. Like Dylan Roof and the other shooters, the drugs he was taking are known to cause paranoid delusions and violent outbursts.

lithium-love-was-oregon-gunman-on-psychiatric-meds-linked-to-violence
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Ibon » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 12:31:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')ts all starting to come out---just as I predicted.

Like many of the other shooters, the Oregon shooting was mentally ill. Like many of the other shooters, the Oregon shooter was ALREADY being treated for his mental illness. Like other shooters, the Oregon shooter was taking powerful psychotropic drugs. Like Dylan Roof and the other shooters, the drugs he was taking are known to cause paranoid delusions and violent outbursts.

lithium-love-was-oregon-gunman-on-psychiatric-meds-linked-to-violence


What is wrong with prohibiting the mentally ill from owning fire arms?
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Plantagenet » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 12:42:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')ts all starting to come out---just as I predicted.

Like many of the other shooters, the Oregon shooting was mentally ill. Like many of the other shooters, the Oregon shooter was ALREADY being treated for his mental illness. Like other shooters, the Oregon shooter was taking powerful psychotropic drugs. Like Dylan Roof and the other shooters, the drugs he was taking are known to cause paranoid delusions and violent outbursts.

lithium-love-was-oregon-gunman-on-psychiatric-meds-linked-to-violence


What is wrong with prohibiting the mentally ill from owning fire arms?


I think its already prohibited by law.

Wasn't Dylan Roof (the NC church shooter) supposed to be unable to obtain guns because of his mental illness, but the Feds mistakenly didn't put him in the right database.

And sometimes the doctors don't even report them. The Oregon shooter was bounced out of the army --- but the reason was never released. Now it turns out he was seeing a head doctor and was on prescription psychotropic meds for mental illness, but again he wasn't entered on the data base to prohibit him from buying guns.

IMHO the doctor who prescribed the psychotropic meds to the Oregon shooter but didn't put this nut job on the list of people who shouldn't be allowed to buy guns was seriously negligent. :idea:
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Hawkcreek » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 12:44:22

Prohibition and actuality are often two different things. Hard to watch a nut job 24 hours a day.
Unless you stick him in a prison somewhere.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby PrestonSturges » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 13:06:51

The other day I saw a conservative say "Because the liberals let all the mental patients out of the hospitals!!!" Umm, no, because Reagan tore down the mental hospitals.

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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby dinopello » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 13:48:20

There are millions of gun owners on psychotropic drugs and being treated for mental illness. The NRA has fought hard to keep laws being passed that would limit the constitutional rights of the mentally ill to own firearms. A few liberal states may have laws like that (e.g. the NY SAFE act) but even these are challenged. And, not only by the NRA but the medical community doesn't want them because they worry that it will discourage those who would seek treatment from going to get it if they are going to lose their constitutional rights.

There is a federal law and the NRA supports banning firearms from someone who was adjudicated by a court as mentally defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution. But attempts to pass laws at he federal level that would add such things as a person that was ordered to counseling or diagnosed with or treated for a mental disorder have been opposed.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby PrestonSturges » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 14:07:19

Anybody that posts >100 messages a week on the internet is too unstable to own firearms.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Hawkcreek » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 14:34:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'A')nybody that posts >100 messages a week on the internet is too unstable to own firearms.

May be some truth to that supposition.
Hard to have a real life if you post too much.
Hard to stay sane if you don't have regular contact with friends, family, and the outdoors.
(IMHO, anyway)
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Cog » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 15:02:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'T')here are millions of gun owners on psychotropic drugs and being treated for mental illness. The NRA has fought hard to keep laws being passed that would limit the constitutional rights of the mentally ill to own firearms. A few liberal states may have laws like that (e.g. the NY SAFE act) but even these are challenged. And, not only by the NRA but the medical community doesn't want them because they worry that it will discourage those who would seek treatment from going to get it if they are going to lose their constitutional rights.

There is a federal law and the NRA supports banning firearms from someone who was adjudicated by a court as mentally defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution. But attempts to pass laws at he federal level that would add such things as a person that was ordered to counseling or diagnosed with or treated for a mental disorder have been opposed.


Here is the federal law being referenced.

Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d), it is unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution

The different states have a variety of laws which are more stringent than the federal law. You can see them at this link.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-and- ... y-ill.aspx

There is good reason that the mental health prohibition has not been strengthened at the federal level. Do you really want a person to avoid seeing a shrink if he is forever barred from the possession of firearms? There has already been some issues with vets having PTSD being denied the possession of firearms. We especially want this group to get the counseling and treatment they need.

There aren't any great solutions that don't risk dragging people through the court system to regain their rights once they are lost. Perhaps a temporary restraining order prohibiting the possession of firearms, which would sunset on a certain date, unless a court proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the person can not be trusted with firearms.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Apneaman » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 15:18:59

Apparently, the 2nd amendment is the only freedom left from the constitution.

SLAVES WITH GUNS

I wonder if the retards will run out and buy more guns after this story. That seems to be the only response to the loss of freedoms - buy more guns and ammo and bitch louder.......and nothing else.


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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Cog » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 15:25:12

I haven't seen any uptick in ammo prices or shortages like there were after Sandy Hook. As long as Republicans hold one of the two houses of Congress, you are unlikely to ever see any more restrictions.

If it looks like Hillary will be elected, there will most likely be a small panic buy. Happened when Barry got elected the first time and the second time. But if you are looking for mags and AR's the price has never been lower than right now. Buy cheap, stack deep.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby dinopello » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 15:42:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Apneaman', '
')I wonder if the retards will run out and buy more guns after this story. That seems to be the only response to the loss of freedoms - buy more guns and ammo and bitch louder.......and nothing else.


Gunshop owners are hopeful that they can cash in this time too.

Image

But, you have to think that people would realize that if a bunch of 5 year olds getting slaughtered didn't change people's minds then pretty much nothing would.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby dinopello » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 15:47:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')he different states have a variety of laws which are more stringent than the federal law. You can see them at this link.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-and- ... y-ill.aspx


Almost none of those are more stringent than the Federal law, they mostly just reference the state law by which someone can be declared by a court as mentally ill or involuntarily committed. Oregon adds the restriction to people who were declared not guilty of a felony by reason of insanity.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby GoghGoner » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 15:53:59

Some interesting links...

http://amok.wikia.com/wiki/Amok_Wiki
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby dinopello » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 19:33:40

There are some parallels to the domestic situation of the Newtown and the Oregon killers.

Both lived with their mothers who were aware of the psych problems and were avid gun enthusiasts.

Oregon killer's mother posted over 30,000 posts under the name "Tweety Bird" to a forum, often about guns

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n response to a question posted on Yahoo! Answers three years ago, the account linked to Harper complains about "lame states" that consider a loaded magazine inside the home the same as having a loaded gun.

"I keep all my mags full. I keep two full mags in my Glock case. And the ARs & AKs all have loaded mags. No one will be 'dropping' by my house uninvited without (acknowledgment)," the user Tweety Bird wrote.


Having your mother indoctrinate you on prepping for the end of the world by being armed when you are mentally unstable seems like a contributing factor in these two cases anyway. Charles Manson lived with a messed up mother also.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby kanon » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 20:48:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')ts all starting to come out---just as I predicted.

Like many of the other shooters, the Oregon shooting was mentally ill. Like many of the other shooters, the Oregon shooter was ALREADY being treated for his mental illness. Like other shooters, the Oregon shooter was taking powerful psychotropic drugs. Like Dylan Roof and the other shooters, the drugs he was taking are known to cause paranoid delusions and violent outbursts.

lithium-love-was-oregon-gunman-on-psychiatric-meds-linked-to-violence


Am I alone in wondering why there are no calls to ban psychotropic drugs? IMHO the gun control issue is the D party's wedge issue, comparable to abortion for the R party. However, the psychotropic drug is a factor in nearly all these shootings it seems. The corporate media does not seem to give much space to that aspect, but the advertising budget could be affected, so it is understandable. I have heard some unbelievable statistics, like millions take Prozac daily in the USA. So it seems entirely plausible that mass shootings are a statistically insignificant side effect of psychotropic drugs.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby SeaGypsy » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 21:11:36

Medicine is governed mostly by statistics. If you can show that a group of patients facing a certain percentage risk of death or disability are statistically likely to have improved outcomes, the percentage who suffer negative or worse outcomes is minimal by comparison, your drug will likely be approved. Problem is you now have tens of millions of people on drugs with a 1-3% seriously negative psychotic reaction, in a country full of guns. Take away the drugs- very likely huge suicide spike, potentially murder spike as well- withdrawals from common SSRIs often being described as worse than hell.
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Apneaman » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 23:37:03

A New Way to Tackle Gun Deaths



"In America, more preschoolers are shot dead each year (82 in 2013) than police officers are in the line of duty (27 in 2013), according to figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the FBI."


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/opini ... eaths.html
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Re: Mass shootings in US what is behind them?

Postby Apneaman » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 23:42:27

America's Top Killing Machine
Gun deaths are poised to surpass automobile deaths in the United States this year.



"For the better part of a century, the machine most likely to kill an American has been the automobile.

Car crashes killed 33,561 people in 2012, the most recent year for which data is available, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Firearms killed 32,251 people in the United States in 2011, the most recent year for which the Centers for Disease Control has data.

But this year gun deaths are expected to surpass car deaths. That's according to a Center for American Progress report, which cites CDC data that shows guns will kill more Americans under 25 than cars in 2015. Already more than a quarter of the teenagers—15 years old and up—who die of injuries in the United States are killed in gun-related incidents, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics."


http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/a ... ne/384440/
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