[careinke]

Well, now that I've had my rant; Welcome back AD.

I am assuming the title of this thread is a question.

Here is my answer:

Go to a mirror and look in it. The bad news is the person you see is, (at least part of), the problem.

The good news is: first, you have complete control over the person in the mirror (actually it is the ONLY person you can morally control). Second, the problem is the solution and even more important the only thing capable of implementing a solution.

Ask yourself these questions:

1. Can you support yourself and your dependent children? If not, you are part of the problem and a drain on society. This should be everyone's prime responsibility and first priority. If you can't even take care of yourself, how are you going to take care of and help others? If you can't take care of your children....DON'T HAVE THEM!

2. Am I degenerating or regenerating the planet? Pretty obvious but also very broad. here are some specific examples:

A. Am I adding atmospheric carbon or reducing it?
B. How local and seasonal am I eating?
C. Does my dwelling consume or produce energy/water/food?
D. Am I dependent on others to make my waste "disappear"?
E. How much am I adding or removing from the waste stream?
F. Are the things leaving my property going to harm the environment/people?

3. Are my actions harming or helping others? This is also pretty broad. Some things to consider:

A. Are my actions infringing on the rights of others?
B. Do you understand when you vote for a law, and it is passed, refusal to obey that law may result in death?
C. Do you throw away stuff that others could use?
D. Do you support your local farmers, vendors, markets etc.
E. Do you volunteer in your local community?

4. Obtain a yield and return the surpluses towards regenerating the planet and helping others to do the same.

These are all things you can have a direct influence on, and change yourself, with some effort on your part. When you start, others will see and follow. With enough of us fixing things we just might turn things around, or at least provide some mitigation. Not acting guarantees failure. The choice is yours.

[americandream]

Mate a quickie.

I can support my kid and buy and sell you a few times. I am a communist who can see the markets and mostly run rings around your average capitalist nincompoop.

I dont like bullshitting and the stuff on Russia, the Islamists, refugees, overpopulation...generally the crap the world is in and all the bull that passes for knowledge. Just like mosta of the trading styles out there are bull, so good few of the political styles in here are bull.

Basically there is a lot of bull passing itself off as gold. I just call it out. Like I said elsewhere, i dont wanna cause too much butthurt so I will reduce my replies to cater for sensitivities.

Incidentally, no charity here. If people arent smart enough to get off their rear ends and make this world a better place, I aint subsidising them.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'W')ow AD, you've come back from your break with you cyber wienie flashing.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '
')
Society worldwide is changing and not for the better. America (and the UK) has a lot to blame, the culture of greed, Corporations, bankers etc. Isis, Syria, Russia, USA, Al Qaeda, you name it, all are entangled from the very top downwards.

Total bags of shit in charge - everywhere. You name me a honest politician / banker. These folks, and the ones that follow them are to blame for the state of the world.

Gas

[americandream]

It is irrelevant who you get on with individually or how you earn a living provided you fully understand how it is that the world is at this juncture; To persist in chanting the overpopulation word as well as bald tribalism without context simply creates the conditions for the flourishing of fear and ignorance and despite how much you may value the Ukranian and Ethiopian individually, the conditions for the subjugation of Ethiopians and Ukrainians as visible exploitable groups.

This notion that you need to be living from hand to mouth and on friendly terms with individual ethnicities whilst you vent forth on the sort of nonsense that sees these groups being invaded, expoloited and disadvantaged is utter gobshite.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')
I can support my kid and buy and sell you a few times. I am a communist who can see the markets and mostly run rings around your average capitalist nincompoop.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')
I can support my kid and buy and sell you a few times. I am a communist who can see the markets and mostly run rings around your average capitalist nincompoop.

[onlooker]

Fascinating the interchanges on this thread. I will play a little the Devils Advocate though AD may not like it. I side with his point of view in so much as the nature of human societies under the capitalist system has veered towards a virulent path. It is not only the warmongering, the exploitation of the Earth and more primitive cultures, it is the whole underpinning of our vaunted narcissistic values and excessive pride. Do not get me wrong I value the great scientific advances, the progress in individual rights and self-determination but not at the price of having created this self-indulgent sub-species that we may call modern humans. So in answer to the OP post, yes Capitalism/Consumerism is front and center of why we have reached this point. Blaming overpopulation is liking blaming someone for sneezing. People will breed under most circumstances. Where I agree with Careinke is that it is pointless to argue the past as most here are set in their viewpoints and blaming something or someone for this MESS we are in is the most pointless of exercises. Oh and finally calling Ibon a fascist is absurd as he is about as removed from the ruckus of human intermingling and petty ideological quarreling as many of us are likely to find among anybody on this site or anywhere in the world.

[ralfy]

Related:

"If everyone lived in an ‘ecovillage’, the Earth would still be in trouble"

https://theconversation.com/if-everyone ... uble-43905

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'R')elated:

"If everyone lived in an ‘ecovillage’, the Earth would still be in trouble"

https://theconversation.com/if-everyone ... uble-43905

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'R')elated:

"If everyone lived in an ‘ecovillage’, the Earth would still be in trouble"

https://theconversation.com/if-everyone ... uble-43905

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'R')elated:

"If everyone lived in an ‘ecovillage’, the Earth would still be in trouble"

https://theconversation.com/if-everyone ... uble-43905

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')
We either give up and take our kids out and shoot them or we try and find a workeable solution which is hopefully sustainable. Thats the best anyone can do.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')
We either give up and take our kids out and shoot them or we try and find a workeable solution which is hopefully sustainable. Thats the best anyone can do.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')And what does that achieve other than to avoid attending to the core problem.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')And what does that achieve other than to avoid attending to the core problem.

[radon1]

This is the objective course of history. No one is to blame.

In Russia, whenever the question "who is to blame?" arises in any discussion, TV show, article or casual talk, it is immediately followed by the question "what is to be done?" (or, more authentically, "what to do?"). This is supposed to be good taste as these two questions are the exact names of the two cornerstone works of the Russian classic 19th century literature (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_to_Blame%3F, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_to_Be_Done%3F_(novel) ).

Cannot resist making a reference to G's piece on the matter, which is right on the spot. https://youtu.be/IVYKFGGB2xY?list=PLRA8 ... rV7OloAU1P

He is discussing it in application to Russia, but it does not limit the generality of the argument. (It's in Russian, English auto-subtitles may be turned on, but the auto-translation is awful and it's quite a torture to read them.) Basically, he is saying that whoever has put forward these two questions together, made a great disservice to the country. Because once the question "who is to blame?" is raised, the answer to the question "what is to be done?" becomes crystal clear - namely, punish those who are to blame, detain them, kill them, imprison them, eliminate them. This is believed to immediately solve all our problems. And this predetermines the vicious circle of the Russian history, whereby those "who are to blame" are identified, dealt with, removed and eliminated, immediately followed by the question "who is to blame" being raised again, and so on and so forth.

He argues that out of these two questions the only one needs to be left, and this is not the question "who is to blame?". Primarily, because asking the question "who is to blame?" puts oneself into a position of a victim. Possibly, a rebelling victim who is ready to demolish everything on her way, but once everything is the demolished her position will be re-instated to the victim status yet again in the new circumstances, inevitably.

The question " what is to be done?" is absolutely different, that is, "what is to be done when no one is there to blame?". This question places a human being in a pro-active position towards the world.

The first step "to be done", is to stop asking question "who is to blame", and this would be a big leap forward. Because this the start of independent thinking, on what I, as a person, could do, specifically, in order to help myself, family, people, country, the world, whichever of those is within the reach of my abilities.

[onlooker]

What difference does it make assigning blame. How can it fix anything.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('radon1', '
')The question " what is to be done?" is absolutely different, that is, "what is to be done when no one is there to blame?". This question places a human being in a pro-active position towards the world.

The first step "to be done", is to stop asking question "who is to blame", and this would be a big leap forward. Because this the start of independent thinking, on what I, as a person, could do, specifically, in order to help myself, family, people, country, the world, whichever of those is within the reach of my abilities.