[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')
The same way democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you put more and more people into the world, the value of life not only declines, it disappears. It doesn't matter if someone dies. The more people there are the less one individual matters.

[Pops]

Timo gets the PO Humorist award.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '(')I am not a church goer, though I support peoples' right to practice religion that doesn't hurt other people) -- but your idea that going to church is collectivism is utter nonsense. Joining a group is NOT collectivism.

Ayn Rand, the opposite of the "dummy" mentality you associate with collectivism talked quite a bit about it.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'I')saac Asimov had a different take.....


Moyers: What happens to the idea of the dignity of the human species if population growth continues at its present rate?

Asimov: It will be completely destroyed. I will use what I call my bathroom metaphor. Two people live in an apartment and there are two bathrooms, then both have the freedom of the bathroom. You can go to the bathroom anytime you want, and stay as long as you want, for whatever you need. Everyone believes in the freedom of the bathroom. It should be right there in the Constitution. But if you have 20 people in the apartment and two bathrooms, no matter how much every person believes in the freedom of the bathroom, there is no such thing. You have to set up times for each person, you have to bang at the door, "Aren't you through yet?" and so on.

The same way democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you put more and more people into the world, the value of life not only declines, it disappears. It doesn't matter if someone dies. The more people there are the less one individual matters.

[onlooker]

Freedom and Collectivism are not mutually exclusive. I think this logic directs itself to what American Dream has been trying to drum into our heads for quite some time. Humans will evolve to understand that they all have common interests and that it is to everyone's benefit to cooperate. Arguments about interference and undue control are understandable but they fail to understand that the higher good of a cooperating collective is worth a certain level of control. After all do we not have rule, controls and laws now. These rules and laws are needed in any context as humans are apt to act in irrational and unpredictable ways. The greater good is the optimal functionality of society as a whole, that can only be accomplished in a collective political system that all members "buy" into. In time such a society will consist of members who freely and voluntarily wish to be part of said society. As for the discussions of overpopulation and work they are all symptoms of the human race and it's societies not having full control and common sense about what trajectories to follow as well as the irrational pursuits and dictates of economic and religious interests.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'F')reedom and Collectivism are not mutually exclusive. I think this logic directs itself to what American Dream has been trying to drum into our heads for quite some time. Humans will evolve to understand that they all have common interests and that it is to everyone's benefit to cooperate. Arguments about interference and undue control are understandable but they fail to understand that the higher good of a cooperating collective is worth a certain level of control. After all do we not have rule, controls and laws now. These rules and laws are needed in any context as humans are apt to act in irrational and unpredictable ways. The greater good is the optimal functionality of society as a whole, that can only be accomplished in a collective political system that all members "buy" into. In time such a society will consist of members who freely and voluntarily wish to be part of said society. As for the discussions of overpopulation and work they are all symptoms of the human race and it's societies not having full control and common sense about what trajectories to follow as well as the irrational pursuits and dictates of economic and religious interests.

[onlooker]

Great post Timo, I do not have much to add except that your right time is running out. If and when humanity can reestablish some control over its destiny, your words should be heeded. One thing though I am convinced , a cohesive united humanity gives us the ONLY chance to progress forward and evolve.

[Timo]

Agreed. That's why I'm not optimistic.