[americandream]

Two refuges of the loser. Angry opportunism or the shopping mall.

SL

I hate to have to tell you the sad news, but capitalists no longer have need for nationalist opportunists. They are cosmopolitan money makers these days so you will have to spend the rest of your days slinging mud at your poor neighbour whilst blubbering over what might have been. Skol!

[StarvingLion]

"London is in firm control" of its cattle (citizens)..LOL.

New book: 'How Corrupt is Britain' by David Whyte @ 2015

"As the contributors to this book collectively explore,
the watchdogs that are supposed to guard against corruption have been
fatally weakened as a result of the slow and pernicious onward march of
a neoliberal political economy."

"...the cynical use of mass public disorientation to impose new economic settlements
that ultimately transfer power from the populace to elites is a common
neoliberal strategy. "

I am shocked. I would never have guessed this is happening in that wonderful democracy called London.

[onlooker]

This topic is the most important topic of any that we can ever discuss. The changed that must occur on this planet for the human species to have a chance to continue must involve pretty much every person on this planet. It has to be a change in conscious and priorities. Even if the elites could or would change it would not matter because everyone must recognize the need to change. Waiting for those in power to change is useless, these elites are the worst of us, the most greedy, selfish and corrupt. People power is about everyone being on board. Do I have optimism about this. Honestly, no but then again maybe a tipping point will be reached when all will recognize this need to change almost simultaneously.

[americandream]

@SL

The greatest imperial machine history has seen. One that even surpasses Islam in terms of its seduction and assimilative qualities and its ability to act with guile. The US is merely its aircraft carrier.

Would you expect otherwise of such a well ensconced elite?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')his topic is the most important topic of any that we can ever discuss. The changed that must occur on this planet for the human species to have a chance to continue must involve pretty much every person on this planet. It has to be a change in conscious and priorities.

[onlooker]

Vts, I stated I am not optimistic but not impossible. Student body and goat herders have something in common, they are both humans !

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '
')I read on one site yesterday that these days the American POLICE have more firepower per person than the United Kingdoms ARMY !!!!!!!!!!!

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')his topic is the most important topic of any that we can ever discuss. The changed that must occur on this planet for the human species to have a chance to continue must involve pretty much every person on this planet. It has to be a change in conscious and priorities.

[Newfie]

What will the masses arise to?

Considering the emigrant flood into Europe, one wonders of the locals will "rise up" against the new comers.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hat will the masses arise to?

Considering the emigrant flood into Europe, one wonders of the locals will "rise up" against the new comers.

[ralfy]

Also,

"The rise of the global middle class"

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-22956470

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hat will the masses arise to?

Considering the emigrant flood into Europe, one wonders of the locals will "rise up" against the new comers.

[americandream]

@ newfie

Mans hardwired functions sit uneasily with his consciousness but this is no more than an effect of mans condition which is essentially that of being an evolutionary WIP. Consequently, it should come as no surprise that man is a complex mix of the immediate and the contemplated.

It should also come as no surprise in that in granting us the tool of contemplation, this is also an evolutionary pathway out of the challenges that arise. In other words, the tool, second tier software to borrow a cyber space analogy, is there to be used in conjunction with the core software, instinct.

However, defaulting to the core software in pursuit of the noble savage is a pipedream. Man either continues evolutions pathway designated for us to the logical domain of material equilibrium or he fails. That failure may well be the corruption of reason to the illogical as you seem to think (where you get such bizarre notions such as sustainable infinity of the kind proposed by Graeme), but that will only be as a consequence of OUR failure.

We have the keys to contemplate our preferred futures. We are not pristinely subjective as our animal brethren. Even you, in your confused understanding of material dialecticism senses this in your calls to ethics.

[onlooker]

If I may add something I read once about Plato's thoughts. Basically he said that the human is divided into three tiers. The first being the animalistic or primitive desires , the second the mind and reason and the third being associated with lofty and high spirited aspirations or emotions. According to Plato the second must always be dominant and in control. This because the first and third were unreliable and led to errors in judgment and reckless behavior. So basically Man must always above all be guided by reason or the objective. So in that sense I think it is similar to what Marx is saying about material dialecticism

[Newfie]

What is a WIP?

There is no "noble savage", or rather the noble savage is simply us, as we are.

It's funny how much folks read to others posts. I see it all the time, not just mine but others.

For example this concept of the " noble savage" never crossed my mind. Yet my words caused it to come to AD's mind, and it then got attached to my ideas.

I suppose I do the same thing at times. Although I try not to.

In any case I don't see us any more savage than say a soldier ant or honey bee. I don't see us, when operating in a collective, as much smarter either.

Old argument, I doubt I'll change any minds.

[americandream]

@newfie

When one contemplates hardwired instinct with an ethical capacity, one can reasonably be said to be contemplating the noble savage. In truth one is contemplating pristine subjectivity which is a no starter with conscious man. Hence the obvious confusion.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I')f I may add something I read once about Plato's thoughts. Basically he said that the human is divided into three tiers. The first being the animalistic or primitive desires , the second the mind and reason and the third being associated with lofty and high spirited aspirations or emotions. According to Plato the second must always be dominant and in control. This because the first and third were unreliable and led to errors in judgment and reckless behavior. So basically Man must always above all be guided by reason or the objective. So in that sense I think it is similar to what Marx is saying about material dialecticism

[Plantagenet]

Waiting for the masses to rise up is like waiting for Godot.

Those of the Christian Marxist faith are content to sit and wait patiently.

Those who don't share their Christian Marxist faith see how absurd it is.


Waiting for Godot the masses to rise up

[SeaGypsy]

That, & just on numbers alone it is going to be total chaos when it does happen. Those crazies with dugouts in the mountains & a few sea gypsies might be the only survivors in a lot of places. I totally doubt people generally have a clue how dependent on vast & efficient delivery of essentials they are. Also I would think being the only person in your street who's kids don't skeletise in a few weeks makes you a zombie magnet. Bleh. An organised meaningful revolution is a pipe dream. The elites intend to ride the horse right into the ground at full gallop & screw the consequences. The revolution this time will be the great bottlenecking of our population, & it will not be pretty. Meanwhile, timing is everything.

[americandream]

It is quite educational to watch conservative socio economists on this forum, dealing as it does with core systemic issues, issues flowing from global accumulation...........characterise circular communism as an absurd belief akin to religion in contrast to, infinite accumulation ( on a finite plane one should add).

Of course, in the event of a failing in the infinity project, theres the other favourite nugget of these people....the inevitability of natural selection and triumph of the superior brute.

How simple are these minds.