[SeaGypsy]

Funny I reckon it's the case around the world that the areas looked at by mundane suburbanites as extreme hotbeds of racism are in fact comparatively socially illustrious.

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[Sixstrings]

Here's an idea: what people could do, in states like Virginia where they have so much history and it means something to them, is just use what was the official national flag of the confederacy.

I saw this in an article, maybe something like this is wouldn't have negative connotations:



I just really dislike that all this has happened, the truth is that the South moved forward A LONG TIME AGO. Example: there's a Thomas Jefferson society, of his descendants. And they include the descendants of Sally Hemmings. They all get along, they have family reunions, nobody is a racist. Everybody is modern, but still honoring the past and understanding context.

There are thousands of examples like that -- so I am just bewildered how overnight the whole history and confederacy is just banned, just like that, with a tweet from a few ceos.

New York Times, on the "Robert E. Lee problem." I wasn't aware Robert E. Lee was a problem, it's 2015.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Robert E. Lee Problem

The case for Lee begins with his personal character. It is almost impossible to imagine a finer and more considerate gentleman.

As a general and public figure, he was a man of impeccable honesty, integrity and kindness. As a soldier, he displayed courage from the beginning of his career straight through to the end. Despite his blunders at Gettysburg and elsewhere he was by many accounts the most effective general in the Civil War and maybe in American history.

One biographer, Michael Korda, writes, “His generosity of spirit, undiminished by ideological or political differences, and even by the divisive, bloody Civil War, shines through in every letter he writes, and in every conversation of his that was reported or remembered.”

...

The case against Lee begins with the fact that he betrayed his oath to serve the United States. He didn’t need to do it. The late historian Elizabeth Brown Pryor demonstrated that 40 percent of Virginia officers decided to remain with the Union forces, including members of Lee’s family.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/opinion/david-brooks-the-robert-e-lee-problem.html?_r=1

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'F')unny I reckon it's the case around the world that the areas looked at by mundane suburbanites as extreme hotbeds of racism are in fact comparatively socially illustrious.

[Cog]

Sixstrings said:

Yes, urban / surburban people should just be more understanding of country folks, and then the latter does move forward and change over time, but it's not smart to make it a culture war fight.

Here again we see the utter disdain of people who live in the country instead of the big city. You might as well just call us ignorant, inbred, red-necks. Since your contempt for us is apparent. People live in the country to escape the hell-holes of corruption, violence by hood goblins, and the ever present government. You love such things but a normal person does not. Your condescending attitude says it all really.

[SeaGypsy]

6 wouldn't last a week in any country town I have lived in Cog, rambling smart parsed bullshitters don't. Next least popular human to 'hood goblin' & closely followed by politicians then banksters.

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[Sixstrings]

edit, rephrase..

SG is correct. I write too much. Let's drop it. I've said my peace -- NOT racism -- but otherwise I do not want to be in a culture war debate, I just don't.

[SeaGypsy]

Ever met someone who just plain talks too much? Next time you are near a mirror, pop over & say hi.

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[Sixstrings]

Without getting into any culture war arguments, new poll out, Americans evenly divided 42% to 42%:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]http://i58.tinypic.com/316rg90.png[/img]
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/06/30/usa-today-suffolk-poll-confederate-flag-gun-control/29500975/

[SeaGypsy]

Uncle, or Aunty Tom & US general awareness surveys. Good sources there hey?

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[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'U')ncle, or Aunty Tom & US general awareness surveys. Good sources there hey?

[Sixstrings]

I was wondering before, about Stone Mountain in Georgia.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Stone Mountain boycott called over confederate flag

A Georgia state representative is calling for a boycott of Stone Mountain Park because of the flying of confederate flags there. Park officials claim the flags are part of a museum, not a sign of hate, and are protected by Georgia state law. VPC
http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2015/07/01/29556371/

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]http://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2013/02/24/dukes-hazard_c0-26-640-399_s561x327.jpg?b56878540de139af4fa76f8ec58d1ea122b84702[/img]

TV Land drops ‘Dukes of Hazzard’ over Confederate flag
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/1/tv-land-drops-dukes-hazzard-over-confederate-flag/

[Sixstrings]

Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Confederate Flag Debate Goes “Off The Deep End”

Republican Presidential hopeful Dr. Ben Carson told supporters at a Spartanburg restaurant “the whole argument about the Confederate flag has sort of gone off the deep end”.

...

One of the supporters greeting Carson, who said he had narrowed his preference to Carson or Donald Trump was wearing a hat with the Confederate battle flag on it. Carson said he wasn’t bothered by it.

“I think his hat is fine,” Carson said, “I can understand why people may not want it on a federal building or federal property but now we’ve turned it into an argument of political correctness.”

Carson also called on lawmakers to consider a constitutional amendment that would “define marriage”.

“I think the Supreme Court way overstepped it’s boundaries. I wish they would read the Constitution because it talks about civil issues and why they should be remanded to the state court system because you can’t have a bunch of unelected people telling the people how they should behave themselves,” Carson said.
http://wspa.com/2015/07/01/ben-carson-confederate-flag-debate-goes-off-the-deep-end/

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]From gay marriage to Confederate flag, how the media are turning intolerant

In a time of rapid social upheaval, too many Americans find themselves marginalized by the media.

What they believed yesterday is no longer acceptable today. The world that they knew is crumbling. And for many of these folks, the mainstream media are on the other side.

And this is a problem, one that strikes at the core of the news business and its claim to fairness.

...

If you are an American who is opposed to gay marriage or respects the Confederate flag, you barely see yourself reflected in the coverage. The message is that you are clueless, out of touch, a lost cause. And in some quarters it’s worse: that you are a bigot, a homophobe and a racist.

...

Some journalists just come out and say it: there aren’t two sides in the gay marriage debate.

Most news organizations have so tilted their coverage in favor of the court’s ruling that you might get the impression that only an extreme few think differently.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/06/30/from-gay-marriage-to-confederate-flag-how-media-are-turning-intolerant/

[Keith_McClary]

No, GOP, biblical Marriage was not between one man and one woman
By Juan Cole | Jun. 28, 2015
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ick Santorum and Mike Huckabee have formally pledged: “We will not honor any decision by the Supreme Court which will force us to violate a clear biblical understanding of marriage as solely the union of one man and one woman.”
...
fundamentalists are always highly selective, trying to impose parts of the scripture on us but conveniently ignoring the parts even they can’t stomach as modern persons.
1. In Exodus 21:10 it is clearly written of the husband: “If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife.” This is the same rule as the Qur’an in Islam, that another wife can only be taken if the two are treated equally.
2. Let’s take Solomon, who maintained 300 concubines or sex slaves. 1 Kings 11:3: “He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.” Led him astray! That’s all the Bible minded about this situation? Abducting 300 people and keeping them immured for sex? And the objection is only that they had a lot of diverse religions and interested Solomon in them? (By the way, this is proof that he wasn’t Jewish but just a legendary Canaanite polytheist). I think a settled gay marriage is rather healthier than imprisoning 300 people in your house to have sex with at your whim.
3. Not only does the Bible authorize slavery and human trafficking, but it urges slaves to “submit themselves” to their masters. It should be remembered that masters had sexual rights over their property assuming the slave-woman was not betrothed to another, and so this advice is intended for concubines as well as other slaves. And, the Bible even suggests that slaves quietly accept sadism and cruelty from their masters: 1 Peter 2:18: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” So a nice gay marriage between two legal equals with no acts of cruelty would be much better than this biblical nightmare.
4. Then there is Abraham, who made a sex slave of his wife’s slave, the Egyptian girl Hagar, and then abandoned her to cruel treatment.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')enesis 16:1-6:
“Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian slave named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, “The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.” Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived. When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my slave in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the Lord judge between you and me.” 6 “Your slave is in your hands,” Abram said. “Do with her whatever you think best.” Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
Birmingham to remove 110 year old confederate veterans' monument, will donate it to heritage group that will place it somewhere else

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'T')hat sound you're hearing in your head Cog is the circling of black helicopters.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'G')ood news.

This is no different then Ukraine and the rest of the countries in eastern Europe tearing down all the statues of Lenin and Stalin after the Russians and their lackeys were booted out.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'T')hat sound you're hearing in your head Cog is the circling of black helicopters.

[Sixstrings]

Just to note, that same CNN poll also shows 55% of Americans support taking down the flag at government places. The same people, in the poll, say the flag is not racist though but about Southern history -- by a margin of 57% - 33%.

So that's my opinion as well, as I already stated in this thread, I'm just right square in line with the majority of people.

The way I see it is that it really is not a racist flag (the flag has been misused by some, yes, but it's not just their flag, white supremacists fly the US flag too), but this is just something that can be done out of respect for people that are offended by it, and especially in light of the tragedy in Charleston.

But when it gets down to banning the sale of flags, pulling up war dead monuments, and banning gettysburg strategy video games -- uh, no.

This is a massive civil liberties concern anyway, we just do not do this America, we do not ban flags or political books or history books or music or religious books.

TV Land shouldn't have pulled Dukes of Hazard, unless the ratings are low -- that show is not a racist show, for goodness sake.

This PC ban hammer stuff would never end if we start this up, and it's not even how we do things in America with our first amendment, we don't ban the sale of flags. What would be next, banning the old Archie Bunker tv show? Banning Ken Burns' civil war documentary series, and all the civil war movies there's ever been, and all the books? Ebay banned confederate flag sales, that means antique flags and antiques showing the flag cannot be traded anymore.

But anyhow, it'll work out okay, with my opinion I'm actually spot on with the majority of people.

The same poll shows large majorities oppose redesigning state flags (I wouldn't mind about that, though in my state we don't know for sure if its origin is Spanish, British, or confederate. ).

The poll also shows that LARGE majorities are opposed to renaming streets or removing monuments (only 33% of black folks are for renaming streets):

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]But most oppose other efforts, including redesigning state flags that feature Confederate emblems or symbols to remove references to the Confederacy (57% oppose that), renaming streets and highways named after Confederate leaders (68% oppose that) and removing tributes to those who fought for the Confederacy from public places (71% oppose that).