[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '[')b]This is really out of control. First of all much more important things on the plate of humanity then by-gone feuds between Confederates and Union. The act of one looney does not define the South anymore then the act of one defines the North. But of course the MSM is only too glad to broadcast this nonsense and get our minds off of the real problems. As the British say "Stay calm and carry on" or in this case get hysterical over nonsense and carry on.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'L')ike forcing cake decorators to bake homosexual cakes.

[Lore]

It does make it more difficult for the purveyors of hate, like Rush, though to stir the pot.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'A')nd the flags of hate are coming down, and I feel proud to listen to all the brilliant kind heartfelt comments from black activists, politicians, academics who have been on MSNBC the last week. They are an impressive lot.

[Lore]

I don't think there is a "roll" here. More like a dam breaking loose. A generational shift in attitudes.

[Sixstrings]

Something's just screwy here, guys. It's like government has failed, so corporations rule now. On moral issues as well. Sometimes I agree with it.. like if they finally start to raise wages a bit, issues like that.

But now, essentially, they ban books.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')fter Nixing Every Title With a Confederate Flag, Apple Will Restore Some Games

Apple CEO Tim Cook joined those calling for the elimination of the Confederate flag. “Let us honor [the victims’] lives,” he wrote on Twitter, “by eradicating racism & removing the symbols & words that feed it.”

But the programs that concerned Hall aren’t the only ones missing. Thursday, on Touch Arcade, Tasos Lazarides reported that a wide range of less self-evidently troubling games had disappeared from the store, including a host of Civil War simulators such as Ultimate General: Gettysburg—“a tactical battle simulator that allows you to lead thousands of soldiers in the famous battle of Gettysburg as commander of either the Union or Confederate army.” For games, this was the Sherman’s March of flag removals: Everything had had to go, regardless of its degree of complicity in the vile culture Cook hoped to expunge.

Apple is not, of course, alone in taking such steps. Walmart and other retailers pulled Confederate merchandise from their stores as flag sales boomed online. As Slate’s Ben Mathis-Lilley suggested, the spike clearly correlated directly with a larger culture of racism. In the case of games like Ultimate General, however, the flag’s image appears in the service of a representation of the past. Its mere presence in such titles does not implicitly endorse racism, and removing them may be tantamount to hiding the historical fact of racism instead of combatting its present persistence.

Kyle Orland of ArsTechnica describes the removal of this image from games in particular as the product of a worrisome “double standard,” one that treats interactive digital entertainments as somehow more dangerous than other media. Orland points out that Apple still sells Civil War­–related films, books, and music, many of which prominently feature the iconography of the Confederacy. Apple has since promised to reverse some of these deletions, but the initial move is still telling.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2015/06/26/apple_restores_some_games_with_confederate_flags_to_the_app_store_after.html

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')This is just troubling. As corporations gain more and more control, they will wield their ban hammer as they see fit. What happens when all books are provided by amazon, and apple, and google? And then if those three don't want you to read something, like maybe climate chagne denial stuff or whatever?

[Sixstrings]

Just one other factor to this. Interestingly, I've noticed in these news stories that there are a few black folks that actually have the confederate flag themselves, and support it.

In Tampa, there was an African American at the demonstration. I posted an article about the former north carolina naacp president. And I saw this clip, he's an african american student whose ancestor served in the war:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')lack SC Student Defends Confederate Flag: ‘I Do Not Feel Offended’ by It
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYnAgrdnVPU

[SeaGypsy]

This discussion reminds me of an aspect of race relations in Oz.

Most people here live along the SE fringe, where there are no full blood aboriginals, no living aboriginal languages & no real need to pay any mind to aboriginal politics directly, yet just about everybody has an opinion based in the abstract. (Media & gossip).

In the north & west of the continent, a couple of hundred thousand aboriginals, with maybe half still speaking first languages, are a significant proportion of every population center. Non aboriginals have to deal directly with aboriginals & the abstract version of the relationship in the media almost invariably appears ludicrous.

People like me (mostly Anglo genetics) who work directly with aboriginal people & are at the cutting edge of national government interventions, in open conversation with southerners with no experience with aboriginals, invariably come across as racists, let alone the rare real dead set racists ("we should have finished the lot of them'). The non aboriginal community across all spectrums comes across as racist in the caste set view of the mainstream.

What is least understood in the abstract experience is how close relationships actually are between black & white. The gross generalizations based on perception of drama played out in the media distort the reality of race relations on the ground where they occur out of any semblance with the daily reality.

Sent from my HUAWEI Y320-U151 using Tapatalk

[C8]

There will be no end to the culture wars- they are intended to go on permanently as an off season organizing adjunct to be funneled into political campaigns. No matter what concessions are made the goalposts will be shifted to keep the anger up- its not about justice, its about power. and it is constantly directed only one way- towards folks who are most likely white, male, Christian or Republican.

You will eventually see demands that:
Schools and parks named after Confederate leaders are renamed
Statues and memorials to confederates are taken down
Textbooks are re-written to make the Civil War only about slavery
Cities, universities, towns to be renamed

then you will see demands that:
money be given for black reparations
Martin Luther King, Obama, etc. to be on coins, etc.
Slave owners like Washington, Jefferson, etc to be removed from many things
Black history classes required in all schools (with national curriculum)
The return of job quotas, etc.
etc. etc.

The goal here is an endless moving of the goalposts- the phrase "no justice, no peace" is a sham, some new injustice is always imagined.

This is about power- not justice

[Sixstrings]

I'm going to be careful posting on this topic going forward. (a) the culture war issues are a waste of time, what matters is policy that would help everybody, in blue states and red states.

(b) It's just sad that the far left pushed things too far, to the point of banning civil war video games and making people feel like they are coming after all of Southern culture and trashing all Southern heritage and culture.

So, it's sad. Take the flags down at the capitols, okay, then go back to Washington DC and do the work of government where it's supposed to be done. In Congress, not apple corporation or walmart or amazon or ebay's boardroom.

The thing needs to go away, people should be coming together, not having more divisions.

Some news from Alabama:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]'Southern Lives Matter': Confederate flag supporters rally in Alabama

Confederate flags returned to the cradle of the Confederacy on Saturday as hundreds of flag supporters arrived at Alabama's Capitol to protest the removal of four rebel flags from a Confederate monument next to the building where the Confederacy was formed.

Standing at the bottom of the Capitol's steps, where 50 years ago Martin Luther King Jr. led a march for civil rights, Tim Steadman said it wasn't right to remove the flags.

"Right now, this past week with everything that is going on, I feel very much like the Jews must have felt in the very beginning of the Nazi Germany takeover," he said. "I mean I do feel that way, like there is a concerted effort to wipe people like me out, to wipe out my heritage and to erase the truths of history."
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/06/alabama_confederate_flag_rally.html#comments

[PrestonSturges]

I was reading a book about propaganda, and it discussed creating an uproar over stuff random people say as a distraction from real issues.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'I') was reading a book about propaganda, and it discussed creating an uproar over stuff random people say as a distraction from real issues.

[Sixstrings]

edit: rephrase, oh nevermind, I'm so tired of this issue.

Folks -- I just like civil war history, and there are many tens of millions of American men that like it too and are not racists.

I like history in general. Don't shut down the historical sites or try to say it's all "nazi," that's all.

Don't ban books. Don't ban video games.

(and I'm an Andrew Jackson buff and war of 1812 buff as well, and yes I know his faults as a human being too, this is just our history)

2nd edit, Okay I saw something Ed Schultz (msnbc) said, he walked it BACK afterward -- presumably the rest of the Left jumped on him like a pack of hyenas -- but if you all wonder where I'm coming from, it's just exactly what Ed said. I've always liked Ed Schultz, he's a Southerner, I think he understands this and that there is a delineation between culture and history versus "being racists."

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Ed Schultz: Purge of Confederate Flag is 'Desecration' of American History

"You know, I understand the effort to remove the Confederate flag from state capitols in the South and anywhere else in this country. There's no doubt about it that it sends the wrong message. But at this point, I asked the question, is it overboard? And I don't understand the attempt to erase American history as if it's going to change our course as a nation. It's not.

The desecration of our nation's history, I think, is dangerous and I think it's unproductive. American history and our roots as a nation needs (sic) to be, number one, understood. It needs to be properly interpreted. It needs to be taught. And at a level, I think, it needs to be respected to be put in its proper context to the recognition of what has developed our great nation and how we have moved forward.

Now what that flag represented at the time is no longer relevant in modern-day society. It's no longer relevant to our moral compass. It's no longer relevant to who we are as a country. And I think it's display in public places, number one, is misplaced and it should be corrected and it is being corrected. But to erase the roots of our country serves no purpose for future generations. There's now a big discussion about, what are we going to do with statues that are inside the United States Capitol? I think you can make the case that the Capitol is a museum because of all the incredible historical events that have happened in our Capitol, and it is a part of our national discussion about where we have been.

And so, I think it serves no purpose to this country for future generations if we're going to totally rewrite the history books and I see an avalanche starting with the removal of the Confederate flag. We have to do this in a smart way."

No sooner had Schultz said this that he began to backpedal --

"It does underscore what a great nation we have become and what we've evolved to that what we're doing and reacting and understanding, what we have to do as a society. The sad commentary here is that it took the death of nine people for us to realize, you know, maybe that flag is the wrong message. Maybe that flag is the wrong symbol. Maybe we ought to take it down. We can take it down and it's not going to change anybody's life. But it is going to send a better message to America that where we were as a country back then is not where we are today."
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-coleman/2015/06/27/ed-schultz-purge-confederate-flag-desecration-american-history

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'I') was reading a book about propaganda, and it discussed creating an uproar over stuff random people say as a distraction from real issues.

[PrestonSturges]

Speaking of anecdotes, remember the 2010 uproar about these two Black Panthers at a public housing polling place with a stick? Basically some conservatives drove around looking for something that would make black people look bad, and they more or less tried to pick a fight with these two black guys. They also made a big deal about the fact that they wore black boots, and I guess their scary scary footwear was a national scandal. Since then, Republicans have prevented tens of thousands of blacks from voting, they have made it legal for people to carry guns to the polls in some areas, and they have passed laws to let Tea Party types get in your face at the polls. Anecdote about scary black people as a distraction from a whole agenda to prevent voting.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'S')peaking of anecdotes, remember the 2010 uproar about these two Black Panthers at a public housing polling place with a stick? Basically some conservatives drove around looking for something that would make black people look bad, and they more or less tried to pick a fight with these two black guys. They also made a big deal about the fact that they wore black boots, and I guess their scary scary footwear was a national scandal. Since then, Republicans have prevented tens of thousands of blacks from voting, they have made it legal for people to carry guns to the polls in some areas, and they have passed laws to let Tea Party types get in your face at the polls. Anecdote as a distraction from a whole agenda.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's making me think maybe Cog is right, when he talks about moving goalposts. And you're for gun rights, Preston -- so how do you feel about this tsunami PC kneejerk rapid fast change on everything, do you realize it will be the 2nd amendment next?

[ralfy]

That reminds me of this article:

"The Secret History of Guns"

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Ku Klux Klan, Ronald Reagan, and, for most of its history, the NRA all worked to control guns. The Founding Fathers? They required gun ownership—and regulated it. And no group has more fiercely advocated the right to bear loaded weapons in public than the Black Panthers—the true pioneers of the modern pro-gun movement. In the battle over gun rights in America, both sides have distorted history and the law, and there’s no resolution in sight.