[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I')t's interesting that 23 NYT Journalists would say that overpopulation is a myth. They are probably comfortably housed and fed in suburban or rich urban settings and don't even know what's going on.

[onlooker]

I think it goes deeper then that, the mainstream media seems to be by and large completely controlled by the powers that be. In that sense they are consistent and reporting the news that they are allowed to. After all, do we see in depth analysis of peak oil, global warming, widespread corruption among the wealthy entities and people or the full gamut of the environmental crisis. NO

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I') think it goes deeper then that, the mainstream media seems to be by and large completely controlled by the powers that be. In that sense they are consistent and reporting the news that they are allowed to. After all, do we see in depth analysis of peak oil, global warming, widespread corruption among the wealthy entities and people or the full gamut of the environmental crisis. NO

[ennui2]

Correction. People want news that is customized to their ideology. They don't want to be informed. They only want to hear what they want to hear. So that's what they get. Their reality is walled off in their own silo.

The same is true of doomers, BTW. If all you do is read Greer's blog, you're only getting part of the story.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'C')orrection. People want news that is customized to their ideology. They don't want to be informed. They only want to hear what they want to hear. So that's what they get. Their reality is walled off in their own silo.

The same is true of doomers, BTW. If all you do is read Greer's blog, you're only getting part of the story.

[onlooker]

I agree with you guys we hear what we want to hear. But inversely, we don't hear want we don't want to hear. that is why I put this on my profile that none are so blind as those who do not wish to see. Deep down, I suspect people in rich countries knew or suspected that we were damaging the Earth and over-breeding in a rapid manner and that we were living as though their was no tomorrow. We were on a express train to destination Collapse. Yet this knowledge was inconvenient to know because then that implies you would feel compelled to act upon it, if not for yourself then for your children or grandchildren. But no we can just pretend everything will be okay or that "technology" will solve everything so we continue with our comfortable cozy and convenient lifestyles. I think Ibon you said mediocre. We were derelict in our moral fortitude and I mean all of us. Every single person on this planet should immediately stop whatever their doing and go out to PROTEST. Nobody can say at this point that is insane because it is insane not too. If you know your going to walk off the cliff you STOP where you are!

[SeaGypsy]

We are already way too far into overshoot for a sudden political stop solution. 'Everyone just stop', & 'protest'? Firstly most people live hand to mouth & don't have the option. Second most people would have no more than a vague idea of what they were protesting, placard arguments followed with demands to "DO SOMETHING!"? Then while 'they' respond 'we' go back to our ruminating dependency, ie 'work'. Government announces revised growth targets to be achieved in various sectors in response to an acknowledged set of placarded concerns, leaving most of the work to people not yet born, the overarching mandatory principle of economic growth continues & we are back in Jevons' paradox lickety split.

No. The environment will bring an end to this, not mass popular movements. The mass populus is already occupied.

[onlooker]

Unfortunately, Sea I do think you are right! But I guess I am romantic and dream of a world where we all would do what I described if for no other reason then to survive.

[Newfie]

Maybe we should merge these two threads.

why-our-brains-don-t-process-the-gravest-threats-to-humanity-t71462.html

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'U')nfortunately, Sea I do think you are right! But I guess I am romantic and dream of a world where we all would do what I described if for no other reason then to survive.

[onlooker]

Yes I suppose again you are right. Yet I have to wonder were the people who took part in revolutions afraid of dying. Or did they take part because even though they knew they could die they rather die fighting not just for their sake but for the sake of future generations then too endure in a cowardly manner. At some point we should have all taken a stand. I hear it loud and clear how we are stupid, ignorant, willfully ignorant, spoiled and selfish etc etc. Well in retrospect we are. Because we did not do what I described. Just imagine a world of the five horsemen- plague, famine, pestilence, war and death. Well that is where we seem headed very soon. So it was a choice between fighting or going down with a whimper- begging. Like the elites are going to be hearing us if it comes to that who will get the remaining food? The elites in their fortified bunkers. I don't know about anyone but I would have without a second of indecision chosen to FIGHT/PROTEST.

[Newfie]

Yes, we die in revolutions, and crusades, and other heroic and nobel deeds. Look at the kamikazes or suicide bombers. Or, look at sports heroes. Each side has its heroes.

What is the commonality?

We are social creatures, it is baked into our genes to want to do "good" for the hive. We want our side to win. It makes us feel good. Worthwhile.

It's just our stupid social programming, just like bees will sting, thereby committing suicide, to protect their hive. Same process.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's just our stupid social programming, just like bees will sting, thereby committing suicide, to protect their hive. Same process.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '
')Every single person on this planet should immediately stop whatever their doing and go out to PROTEST.

[onlooker]

I will be the first to admit that we humans are not equipped to handle the dire threat of GW and other threats especially cause we respond to the immediate rather then the farther off. But check out this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio
declaring back in 2007 that "Polls show that between one-third and one-half of Americans still believe that there is "no solid" evidence of global warming, or that if warming is happening it can be attributed to natural variability". So it is instructive to understand how humans have not had access to much of the compelling evidence and thus lacking an understanding of how huge the threat is. Whether us here in rich countries being deceived by phony campaigns seeking to cloud the issue or people in poor countries without internet or other sources of potential illuminating information. Add people are busy with the everyday struggle of life and also the message too disturbing for some to handle and you can see that my idea was never going to be easy. Yet I stand by it if their had been any chance to stop this runaway train it would have been this everyone and their grandmother out to the streets and willing to do almost anything to make sure the leaders acquiesce to the will of the people. The point is moot now as GW is now runaway global warming.

[Newfie]

Onlooker,

Just remember that all religious fundamentalist are just as adamant as you are.

I was at a couple of climate gatherings and upon talking to the organizers a significant fraction, perhaps majority really had little to no clue, they were just political organizers looking for a cause to attach to.

As to you r point about grass movements and 350, I had a brief opportu its to speak to McKibben. I think he agrees, we should all be in the streets, to limit the inevitable.

[ennui2]

I've also met McKibben. He was speaking in Lexington, MA to the "lobster-tails" crowd.

I don't know how anyone could read Eaarth (I couldn't even finish it--it was too depressing) without feeling McKibben is "one of us" as far as doomerism is concerned. However, he's chosen to focus his efforts on large-scale polluters rather than guilt-tripping individuals into powering-down, and he seems to want to lean back on warmed over 60's sit-in style protests and doing the lecture-circuit, which makes sense, considering that he's a college professor.

It's really not true that people haven't had access to the data, though. It's been out there for a very long time, starting with the popularity (which people forget) of Inconvenient Truth, followed by Live Earth, Earth 2100, etc... People forget how Al Gore DID have a run in the limelight before he was very effectively demonized by the right-wing. His name is now a punch-line.

So it's not so much that the data isn't out there, but that it is being crowded out by the F.U.D. of the denialist industrialists. Even if that were not happening, though, there's still enough mental blocks to prevent people from wanting to take effective action.

[Newfie]

I absolutely agree the data is out there for thinking people to consume.

They choose not to, that is why I blame industrialist less and common folk more.

It's not them, it is us damn humans.