[onlooker]

The optimist sees the glass half full , the pessimist sees the glass half empty, the realist is looking to find more water.

[Pops]

The optimist sees the glass half full ,
the pessimist sees the glass half empty,
the realist imagines he knows the truth

IOW, the optimist and pessimist can both consider themselves realists, just with different tendencies.

The realist doesn't imagine he has a bias, which of course it the biggest bias.

[onlooker]

Yes but the realist does not wallow in emotions good or bad, he/she acts based upon available info. Bias usually is related to emotions, I would think.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'A')nother factor/ reason to hang on to optimism is that pessimism & inaction have a very solid marriage. If you like being active, better have a positive reason to act. If you like being inactive, what better excuse than committed negativity?

[Pops]

I disagree onlooker.

Ask MBS and Copious (just to pick two) and they would tell you they are neither optimistic or pessimistic but realistic. Yet they have 2 opposing points of view. How can that be?

We each make up our own reality from the inputs of our few senses, our unique experiences, our genetic predispositions, our diet, health status, age and who knows what.

I think the full time job of the subconscious it to stitch together a narrative that somehow blends all those pieces and influences together so we can make a guess at what is going to happen next. Good from a survival perspective and obviously a trait that has been selected for and maybe we are better at it than most animals, but that doesn't mean that we are prescient or omniscient or even merely unbiased.

There is no objective reality, only subjective interpretation. Realism is just another bias, one of the least desirable I think because a person is biased to such an extent they think they have no bias.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is no objective reality, only subjective interpretation. Realism is just another bias, one of the least desirable I think because a person is biased to such an extent they think they have no bias.

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is no objective reality, only subjective interpretation. Realism is just another bias, one of the least desirable I think because a person is biased to such an extent they think they have no bias.

[Timo]

Reading through the last few posts about realism and subjective interpretations of billions of personal observations, all separately, yet collectively shaping the world we all see around us has lead me to the following hypothesis: The universe is a hologram, and reality, as we all understand it, does not exist. Reality, in fact, cannot be defined, not by any one, or even uniformly by billions of people, because everyone's interpretations of their own personal observations are different to some degree. We all can only be realists in the extent of our own minds, based solely on our own interpretations of our own personal observations. No two individuals live in the same reality. That reality changes depending on the POV of the individual. Just like a hologram.

I'm very optimistic that my hypothesis is correct.

I'm very pessimistic that i'll ever have another trip like that, where I came to reach this hypothesis. That was one helluva mind-meld I had with my Volcan spirit guide. But it all seemed so logical at the time!

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'T')he optimist sees the glass half full , the pessimist sees the glass half empty, the realist is looking to find more water.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') disagree onlooker.

Ask MBS and Copious (just to pick two) and they would tell you they are neither optimistic or pessimistic but realistic. Yet they have 2 opposing points of view. How can that be?

We each make up our own reality from the inputs of our few senses, our unique experiences, our genetic predispositions, our diet, health status, age and who knows what.

I think the full time job of the subconscious it to stitch together a narrative that somehow blends all those pieces and influences together so we can make a guess at what is going to happen next. Good from a survival perspective and obviously a trait that has been selected for and maybe we are better at it than most animals, but that doesn't mean that we are prescient or omniscient or even merely unbiased.

There is no objective reality, only subjective interpretation. Realism is just another bias, one of the least desirable I think because a person is biased to such an extent they think they have no bias.

[SeaGypsy]

Well spotted Ralphy, I always thought it was a silly question too, however it is an analogy for a bunch of questions about attitude. You could fire dozens of the questions we discuss here at a person at random & generally expect one of 3 reactions overall. Fight, flee or accept. One could react in any of these modes with a positive or negative self view, which after all is just an attitude about an attitude. We can see fight or flight & we see acceptance, these are actions, hence some people doing amazingly positive things in an intensely aware headspace, yet still be miserable & others can be happy being worse than any animal in their behaviour. Weird monkeys.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'T')hat doesn't follow from the analogy: one can see a glass as half-full or half-empty, the amount of water in the glass is the same either way.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'R')eality, in fact, cannot be defined, not by any one, or even uniformly by billions of people, because everyone's interpretations of their own personal observations are different to some degree.

[Pops]

Here are two headlines from google news
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/orders-for-durable-goods-drop-05-percent-in-april/2015/05/26/38975560-03a4-11e5-93f4-f24d4af7f97d_story.html]Orders for durable goods drop 0.5 percent in April–Washington Post[/url]

US durable goods pick up pace in April–Financial Times

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'T')hat doesn't follow from the analogy: one can see a glass as half-full or half-empty, the amount of water in the glass is the same either way.

[SeaGypsy]

How many times have you heard that Obama is black? How many times have you heard that he's half white by comparison? Which is he to his white mama who raised him? It's OK to call this guy black, obviously, & a bit un PC to call him half white, but absurd to call him white, right? Although calling him white is as correct as calling him black, if we remove bias.

I am doing ethics @ university at present & arguing about definitions with my 70 yo professor today about the question of such a thing as 'individual ethics'. Without going into the whole spiel, the question optimist vs pessimist is one bound in this part of our minds which will invariably almost, go hard for the most socially acceptable position. We 'feel' our ethic is personally compelling on a deep level, when in fact it is a response to social pressure. Why else do us lost black sheep congregate in this neck of the world? Why is Facebook the biggest site in the world maybe ever? Human need for social approval in an ever more complex & novel environment.

Positivity is the preferred meat in every sandwich, is why most people are addicted to it, more to abstaining from anything deemed not to fit in with this basic dog brain social requirement. Like existentialism, may be scientifically correct, with it's own fanclub & post modernist spawn, but it is so unbearably anti social anyone under 35 odd is likely to have to read for a while to figure out what the hell I just said.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'T')hat's why for me there's little difference between the two.

[Ibon]

We all seem to acknowledge that we are entering uncharted waters. That in itself means that our supposition of reality will be challenged. Funny though how this understanding seems to make many people bite down harder on their rigid beliefs.

Hey, this is another one of those silver linings. An uncharted future brings mystery into our lives. That's so much nicer than the boring predictability of living in abundance.

We might even be called upon to move from parasitic consumption toward something more balanced in relationship to our biosphere.

Wow, the future is looking more dignified for our species every moment.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'W')e all seem to acknowledge that we are entering uncharted waters. That in itself means that our supposition of reality will be challenged. Funny though how this understanding seems to make many people bite down harder on their rigid beliefs.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', ' ')
What planet are you living on?