[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'A') passenger set might weigh 500 tons . A hundred car freight train 10,000 tons and have three locomotives to make the grades. That's a lot of kwhs to strip from a grid in passing.

[orbit7er]

vtsnowedin wrote
"I just helped my daughter (one of the three) move down to Atlanta to her new job"

I just helped my daughter move by train from New York to Albuquerque!
Actually some of her fellow students from the West Coast had suggested moving by train since you can check 2 50LB bags or boxes per person and carry on another 2 50 lb bags or boxes per person making 200 lbs. We did pay extra for a bicycle which cost $20 when shipped in a special bicycle box. But Amtrak has already purchased and is currently testing new baggage cars in their testing facility in Florida which allow bicycles to be rolled onto the train and
hung along the sides of the baggage car which will be a big boon to bicycle riders.
My daughter did ship 9 boxes via Express bus and that was it!
If you read the book "Train Time" you will discover that historically trains shipped all sorts of huge personal items including of course elephants and giraffes.

Trains have a lot more capabilities than we have been led to believe in the age of Auto Addiction since Alfred Sloan from GM funded Auto Addiction propaganda centers in colleges and urban planning institutes all over the USA since the 1920's.

[vtsnowedin]

Trains have historically had two problems for the average consumer. One that you had to get your shipment to the train station at your expense and then from the train station to it's final destination at the far end of the trip. Every transaction involved at least three people or firms. Second was the natural tendency for railroads to operate as monopolies and jack up freight rates beyond all reason. During the Great depression they charged more to move cattle and produce to market then they were worth at that market making them worthless at the rail head or farm. That monopoly was only broken by the building of the interstate highway system and may be handed back to them by >$10.00 gas in the future.
In the future a modern rail system would combine something on the order of UPS with the railroad itself and provide door to door service. You could try Federal regulation of freight rates but that will probably fall victim to politics as usual and the upper limit on prices will rest with what truckers can do on what remains of the highway system.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('toolpush', 'S')ub,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-diesel_locomotive

Duel mode locomotives can be done, as you will see on the link. You will also notice they are usually for nitch markets and light duty.
Interesting that that you suggest using the diesel in tunnels,as this is usually where the duel mode is used in electric mode.
Not sure it would be so easy as rebuilding a new old loco, and installing a transformer and extra circuitry that would be required. Building from new would be more likely scenario. There is not much spare room in a loco these days and high voltage takes space.
If the diesel needs to be running for every overhead bridge or tunnel that the train passes under or through, then depending on the geography, the diesel could be spending all of its time on idle, with many short bursts of power and therefore cutting into any possible fuel savings.

[vtsnowedin]

GASman you might want to edit that last to say North East corridor and ad DC after Washington. Otherwise you might confuse Washington state (Seattle) for some people that are non map readers. And Midwest towns are not far apart. There is usually one just fifty miles or less from the last one.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'S')orry about that vtsnowedin, got my east & west confused !!

[Pops]

A lot of the "good old days" of rail in America had to do with developers subdividing the outskirts of town and running a line out for commuters. It was an amenity paid for from sales of homes and the fares paid operating costs OK - until major capital was again needed then poof.

The opposite is true as well, lots of those far flung western towns sprang up on railroad land, not by accident but through the efforts of the RRs to sell the land given to them by the gov.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'A') lot of the "good old days" of rail in America had to do with developers subdividing the outskirts of town and running a line out for commuters. It was an amenity paid for from sales of homes and the fares paid operating costs OK - until major capital was again needed then poof.

The opposite is true as well, lots of those far flung western towns sprang up on railroad land, not by accident but through the efforts of the RRs to sell the land given to them by the gov.

[Newfie]

Some here would do benefit from reading this.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad ... ted_States

And this is entertaining...

https://archive.org/details/TheHistoryA ... oadBetween

More
http://www.thebhc.org/sites/default/fil ... -p0151.pdf

And finally about the REA

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Express_Agency

One of the hings that really did in the railroads long distance passenger traffic was the shift of US Mail from train to air. I can't wuickly find a good article on it. I do remember the abandoned remains of the mail shoots down to the tracks in Philly and in Penn Station, NY. The main post offices were co located with the passenger terminals and these were large operations. They amounted to huge subsidies for the trains which went away with transfer to air delivery.

[Newfie]

What problem are electric trains supposed to solve?

[Pops]

We're going to switch everything over to PV, it'll be great.

Just sell that nasty old Bakken stock and buy some green PV stock, it is growing eeeeexponentiallyyyyy

really.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hat problem are electric trains supposed to solve?

[dashster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hat problem are electric trains supposed to solve?

[dashster]

The built a prototype battery powered locomotive in 2009. They make some incredible claims - it can go 24 hours on a charge and can be recharged in two hours.

A locomotive that could run from overhead wires (and simultaneously charge the batteries) and then go to battery when they weren't available would be nice.

[dashster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')The problem I have with this bleary eyed adoration is that it is just a sort of greenwashing. By convincing yourself that our problems are as simple as moving from diesel to electric locomotion is hiding the bigger fact that if you could move all this crap for free, with no energy at all, we would still be in overshoot and still depleting the worlds resources and polluting the atmosphere at suicidal rates.

[toolpush]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('toolpush', 'S')ub,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-diesel_locomotive

Duel mode locomotives can be done, as you will see on the link. You will also notice they are usually for nitch markets and light duty.
Interesting that that you suggest using the diesel in tunnels,as this is usually where the duel mode is used in electric mode.
Not sure it would be so easy as rebuilding a new old loco, and installing a transformer and extra circuitry that would be required. Building from new would be more likely scenario. There is not much spare room in a loco these days and high voltage takes space.
If the diesel needs to be running for every overhead bridge or tunnel that the train passes under or through, then depending on the geography, the diesel could be spending all of its time on idle, with many short bursts of power and therefore cutting into any possible fuel savings.