[Quinny]

Don't know why, but I've somehow missed this thread. I've just read it and must admit a slight exaggeration I've previously been guilty of. I often use the term LMAO or even LMFAO when I am amused at the content of a post but sometimes not actually laughing.

Today I have actually been LMAO!

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ')The tech and engineering needed for a space colony is the same as it would be for a biodome in the Gobi desert or on Antarctica or under the ocean, and then more too, due to the particulars of space.

[DesuMaiden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', 'N')ot a chance. Our colonization of this planet is turning in to quite a disaster and we have plenty of food, air and water here.

[dinopello]

Damn, the Spacers are right !

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', 'T')hat is a lie. A big fat fucking lie.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'S')ame? Are you serious? Only more too? I think that is the understatement of this thread,

[Sixstrings]

And another thing, Monte, you seem incredulous that there's not much difference between and undersea colony and a space colony.

Fact is, there is not.

A space habitat is just a tin can. It doesn't take a lot. Skylab was just a hollow stage of a Saturn V rocket. And it got too hot in there for some reason, I can't remember, and they actually put a big tarp outside for some shade and that solved the problem.

Any undersea colony is about the same tech. Like a submarine, that's sealed off and can withstand pressure -- you don't even have any pressure in the vacuum of space, zero pressure. Deep sea is actually more difficult.

All you need is a tin can, pretty much. I think the ISS has some covering on the outside to protect from micrometeorites, I forget the details, but micrometeors are like getting blasted with a sandblaster so yeah you need some kevlar or whatever they're using that can withstand erosion and impacts up to a certain diameter.

Orbital stations would always take damage, over time, and on mars there are sandstorms. Martian concrete made on the spot would hold up fine.

For orbital colonies, you'd have to have mining set up be getting all the ores ya need, and then 3d printers and resource processing like that so you can patch the station up as needed.

Here's an interesting question that I don't quite know the answer to: would the moons of jupiter have all the elements you need, to make anything you need?

I'm guessing not. To be totally self sustaining forever then you need to get at any element you will need, I would guess, so that's rare earth elements (maybe more plentiful on other bodies), gold, whatever it is we actually need to make hardware and equipment.

[SeaGypsy]

Something which has never been done on this planet where moving stuff around costs virtually nothing, will only require "a tin can" fucking space cadet,

[Subjectivist]

For going on a quarter of a century humans have been building spacecraft with ion propulsion. Ten times as fuel efficient as chemical rockets, long slow accelleration/deceleration curves instead of Hohman thrust and coast orbits.

You can't get off the ground with them because they only work in a vacuum environment, but as the old saying goes get to low earth orbit and you are half way to anywhere in our Sol system.

Don't take my word for it, start with Wiki and chase down the leads you find there.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster

[DesuMaiden]

I doubt people will colonize space.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')o you think NASA could have done better? For all its faults it was an impressive endeavor. I doubt we will ever see anything so ambitious again.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ')You say nowhere to go,

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'A')nd another thing, Monte, you seem incredulous that there's not much difference between and undersea colony and a space colony.

Fact is, there is not.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')ix, peer review is not the measure of human progress. Of Einstein's 300 papers only one was peer-reviewed. There was no fraud in the project. The folks involved were brilliant brave and hard-working. There merely failed. As will your plans. How well you handle the insults, neglect, and depression will be your measure.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')oogle moves into Nasa’s space



Google has taken a 60-year lease on a Nasa airfield next to its Silicon Valley headquarters as it pushes deeper into researching areas like space exploration and vehicles capable of navigating other planets.
The lease includes a commitment to spend $200m on the facilities at the Moffett airfield, including renovating a gigantic, historic airship hangar that has become a prominent local landmark.

...

Announcing a deal with Google on Monday, Nasa said the Moffett facilities would be used for “research, development, assembly and testing in the areas of space exploration, aviation, rover/robotics and other emerging technologies”.

Google has not disclosed any plans of its own to engage in interplanetary exploration, though it has offered a $20m prize for any private mission before the end of next year that can land a robot on the moon, travel 500 meters and send back images.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/a4bb0fca-692b-11e4-9eeb-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3Ie8Wf0kp

[Subjectivist]

If I were wealthy enough to do something like bio dome project I would prioritize differently. The first step of any successful closed system has to be long term survival. When the first people's crossed from Siberia to Alaska via Berengia it was no walk in the park. Modern humans seem to think nature was all just a giant Yellowstone where they could wander around with impunity. In reality there were dangers lurking everywhere from getting trampled by herd animals to getting hunted by wolf packs or eaten by short face bears. Not to mention all the unfamiliar plants many of which are poison if you eat them or cause painful chemical rashes or puncture wounds if you touch them.

Those first people's faced a very dangerous task in the beginning, but they learned what to avoid, or they died trying. By some estimates once they had a toe hold in North America it took less than 1,000 years for their descendants to spread all the way to Tierra Del Fuego at the southern tip of South America.

If you want something like bio dome to serve as a colony prototype it has to be as self sufficient as you can make it. Air and water need to be fully recycled, food has to be grown, and nutrients have to be recycled with nearly perfect efficiency. The closest we have ever come is the Space Stations we have put in orbit, but they all get a constant influx of food from outside.

Did you know that food provides almost all of the water and air the astronauts need? When humans digest food they break it down into water, carbon dioxide and nitrogen gas. The water created is put through electrolysis to get back the oxygen needed. Outside water arrives in the moisture content of some of the foods and in the shuttle days hundreds of gallons of water would be left on the station at the end of each visit from both the visiting astronauts breath and from the shuttles fuel cell exhaust.

Step one of building a real bio dome would be a plant based carbon dioxide handling system taking in gasses and producing edible plant mass in return. Getting the balance right is not just a case of making some soil and planting a garden.