[KaiserJeep]

I feel a great sadness. Someone, somewhere, filled your young mind with twaddle and fluff. One day when you understand the nature of Service, reflect back upon this conversation.

Because you are so wrong. The military in it's present form dates back to the Citizen Soldiers of the Roman Empire. YOU do not have the ability to re-define it to fit your ignorance and mistaken beliefs.

If you remain unconvinced of what I have said, I invite you to repeal the Law of Gravity and attempt to fly, or to define the value of Pi as the integer "3". Because those actions are equally as valid as your re-definition of the role of the Soldier.

Time for another beer. You inspire thirst.

[Strummer]

But I do understand the nature of Service. My grandparents suffered greatly at the hands of those who, just like you, understood and respected the nature of Service. The ones with the skulls on their caps. They too, were convinced that by submitting to Service and slaughtering millions of innocent human beings, they were defending their German Motherland. And guess what, they too traced their traditions back to the Roman Empire.

There's too many fascists on this forum, it makes me sick. And all of this coming from the Americans, with no real history, except the history of slaughter and theft, the greatest theft of land ever done in human history. You have no clue what it means to actually live in a real society, a society where you need to solve conflicts, where you need to respect boundaries, century after century. Americans never had to respect any boundaries, they just trampled over them and took everything, and it shows.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', 'B')ut I do understand the nature of Service. My grandparents suffered greatly at the hands of those who, just like you, understood and respected the nature of Service. The ones with the skulls on their caps. They too, were convinced that by submitting to Service and slaughtering millions of innocent human beings, they were defending their German Motherland. And guess what, they too traced their traditions back to the Roman Empire.

There's too many fascists on this forum, it makes me sick. And all of this coming from the Americans, with no real history, except the history of slaughter and theft, the greatest theft of land ever done in human history. You have no clue what it means to actually live in a real society, a society where you need to solve conflicts, where you need to respect boundaries, century after century. Americans never had to respect any boundaries, they just trampled over them and took everything, and it shows.

[Ibon]

It is interesting. I have come across lately a number of my friends children and my daughters friends who have chosen a military career. Their main inspiration for choosing this path seems to be a search for a sense of honor and brotherhood and discipline having felt such an absence of such virtues in their lives.

Here is the irony that KJ has to also recognize which is what should make him sadder than any comment of Strummer.

The absence of these virtues that many young people feel is because of the political and culture they are members of. And the military service they choose to serve to instill these virtues is in the service of the political institutions that created the very lack of these virtues.

This is a terrible catch 22. Searching for virtues in the service of a system that promotes the exact opposite of the virtues one is searching for.

[Ibon]

Adding to my last post is an anecdotal story from the other end, the exiting soldier. Last year in The Philippines I met a retired American soldier who spent 9 years in Iraq. He was filipino descent and living in a small village. I had the chance to speak with him about his choice to live in the Philippines. He grew up his whole life in America and was a first generation immigrant. He told me in the military he was part of a team where he had the total confidence that his fellow soldiers had his back The virtues of soldier life were so deeply instilled in him and he said he could never "go corporate" in America after having served in the military because instead of his work mates having his back he would have to enter a social system of back stabbing etc.

And so he chose to live in his mother's country, in a rural setting where there were still virtues of community life that held a meaning for him.

His story brought into very sharp focus the points I made in my last post.

[Pops]

@ Ibon,
My son joined the AF soon after 9/11, he was looking for a career and it was a tossup between the highway patrol and the mil. His words were he wanted an "honorable profession". I told him I was proud of his ideal and that I thought the mil a better choice than writing tickets and mopping up accident scenes. He did well in the structured environment though he recently went into the reserves so he can pursue a career in architecture.

My SiL was looking for a career as well and perhaps partly because both his parents were career mil he really took to it. He's a more pragmatic guy, outwardly so at least.


@C, You are arguing with someone here about taking away your pension, not sure who.

Paul Ryan's committee said,
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.').. military retirement “an exceptionally generous benefit, often providing 40 years of pension payment in return for 20 years of service.”

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', 'B')ut I do understand the nature of Service. My grandparents suffered greatly at the hands of those who, just like you, understood and respected the nature of Service. The ones with the skulls on their caps. They too, were convinced that by submitting to Service and slaughtering millions of innocent human beings, they were defending their German Motherland. And guess what, they too traced their traditions back to the Roman Empire.

There's too many fascists on this forum, it makes me sick. And all of this coming from the Americans, with no real history, except the history of slaughter and theft, the greatest theft of land ever done in human history. You have no clue what it means to actually live in a real society, a society where you need to solve conflicts, where you need to respect boundaries, century after century. Americans never had to respect any boundaries, they just trampled over them and took everything, and it shows.

[Strummer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'Y')ou spoke of the Axis atrocities of WW2. Those were committed by the Nazis in Europe and the Japanese in China and the Pacific Islands.

[Henriksson]

My father was a soldier of the Swedish navy, and would probably be one of the first ones to die if the Soviets attacked. He was not special in any way - almost all males his age were involved in it. He didn't get any compensation for it, either. He simply did his duty as a citizen.

[Pops]

I think mandatory service of some kind would be a great leveler of society, Henrik. Never happen in the US though, for that same reason. We like to think of ourselves as classless but nothing could be further from the truth, money buys opportunity here.

[careinke]

@pops,

Interesting theory, one side being able to default on a contract because the situation changes. I thought the whole purpose of a contract was to prevent that? Why even have contracts if they don't matter?

Lets put the shoe on the other foot for a while.

Say I'm a young person who decides to go into the military, and I am fit enough to get in (most don't). I join and take advantage of the education opportunities, learn my soldier duties well, and enjoy the perks of nice recreational facilities on the base.

I fit in well and am basically enjoying the military lifestyle........

Then, we go to war against country X. It is not a pretty war, lots of people on both sides are dying, and I have just been told I'm deploying to the front lines in a week. I know my chances are slim.

But hey! Things have changed. We were not at war with country X when I joined. As a matter of fact, our two countries had decent relations before this. I actually like country X. I joined the military for the education and benefits, not to die. So I quit.

According to your beliefs, there is no problem with the government abandoning their obligations, so you should have no problem with the soldier doing the same thing. After all, times have changed.

Just think what would happen if all professions did this; Teachers, Garbage Men, Construction Workers, Police ,,,,,,,,OH WAIT! They do. I guess that's the real difference between a Soldier and a Civilian.

I fully expect my government to renege on their promise to me. As a matter of fact, they already have, by reducing the retirement cola to one percent less than inflation, thereby decreasing my purchasing power by one percent a year. I'm certain this trend will accelerate rapidly as the US collapses, (it is my canary warning).

Fortunately, I anticipated this happening since government is run by civilians who generally have no sense of integrity, so I'm prepared. I still don't have to like it.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') think mandatory service of some kind would be a great leveler of society, Henrik. Never happen in the US though, for that same reason. We like to think of ourselves as classless but nothing could be further from the truth, money buys opportunity here.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') think mandatory service of some kind would be a great leveler of society, Henrik. Never happen in the US though, for that same reason. We like to think of ourselves as classless but nothing could be further from the truth, money buys opportunity here.

[Pops]

C, you are pretending that nothing is changing and present a strawman argument about contracts.

First, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure the retirement age COLA was never on the table, is that wrong? Lots and lots of folks lost retirement funds big time over the last couple of decades and they are forced to adjust. Fair? Maybe not but so it goes.

I'm pretty sure we see eye to eye regarding the possibility that BAU might soon change, this conversation - on my end anyway, is about a smaller future, not about the evil gov trying to wriggle out of a contract that is has every ability to fulfil. Sad to say that isn't the point at all, BAU has a limited shelf life, kinda the whole premise around here as you know.

As noted above, retirement and medical was a higher percentage of mil spending last year than guns, and that situation is only getting worse. You know what they say about the unsustainable, it goes on as long as it can, 'til it can't, then it stops.

.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')
As noted above, retirement and medical was a higher percentage of mil spending last year than guns, and that situation is only getting worse. You know what they say about the unsustainable, it goes on as long as it can, 'til it can't, then it stops.

.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'Y')ou spoke of the Axis atrocities of WW2. Those were committed by the Nazis in Europe and the Japanese in China and the Pacific Islands.

[Strummer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'A')s for the USA "taking over an entire continent", that is absolute libel. It is true that the pre-Christopher Columbus population of the North American continent may have numbered as many as 50 to 100 million people, but the native populations were devastated by European diseases (smallpox, influenza, bubonic plague and pneumonic plagues) in a time before the USA existed and before there was a theory of disease that included germs.

[KaiserJeep]

Again, the Native Americans died from disease over 200 years before the original 13 American colonies formed the United States. If you insist upon blaming someone for the actions of those colonists, than prior to the American Revolution of 1776, it would be the European countries that founded those colonies - Britain, France, and Spain.

If you have any information about America supporting the "Maiden Coup" as you have called it, then present it, because this is a HIGHLY SUSPECT source:

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_03/USAID-got-Maidan-coup-up-and-running-media-6362/

..but it's all I can find. There is no information in credible news sources.

Again, I would ask for your anonymous disclosure of your nationality, so that we might assess your own credibility.

I am proud to be American, what are YOU hiding?

[basil_hayden]

Hey WindBag -

Ever hear of Geronimo? I think he and his entourage died of lead.

Now put down the flag and come out with you baby booming asshands up.

[radon1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '
')Again, I would ask for your anonymous disclosure of your nationality, so that we might assess your own credibility.