[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'O')h good grief Agent, you voted for John McCain! And Mitt Romney! Hello?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')As long as SAM's exist, planes will get shot down. Its just the human accident factor, unavoidable.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')As long as SAM's exist, planes will get shot down. Its just the human accident factor, unavoidable.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')As long as SAM's exist, planes will get shot down. Its just the human accident factor, unavoidable.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '.')...the operator mis-identified a target.

[Oneaboveall]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', '
')Given this crank call and the anchor's embarrassing response to it, I think MSNBC would be one of the last sources you'd want to listen to:

http://youtu.be/URF2uOD5nhE

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', '
')Given this crank call and the anchor's embarrassing response to it, I think MSNBC would be one of the last sources you'd want to listen to:

http://youtu.be/URF2uOD5nhE

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'M')y point, on my guys (Bush/Mitt/ (even McCain)), has been that they would never have permitted Russia to believe that control of Sevastopol was in jeopardy.

[Lore]

Yes, neocons are real good guys ....

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I')f the Obama admin gets too harsh with the sanctions, that's far more threatening to Russia than them losing Sevastopol. So it's a perplexing move, there -- banking war is a declaration of war, would have been better to just put some troops in Ukraine.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'D')isagree on that point completely. There are no sanctions the US or EU can write on paper that exceed the value of the Crimea to Russia. Now, if you disagree with that numerically, we can't come to an agreed point. There basically is not a "too harsh" as long as we're talking sanctions vs Crimea.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Ukraine probe highlights weakness of US, Europe

The downing of Malaysia Flight 17 casts new light on just how inept and decadent the United States and Europe have become.

Faced with Russia’s annexation of the Crimea and attempts to repeat in the Eastern Ukraine, the best Western Europe and the United States have mustered are strong words and token sanctions on top Russian officials and several companies. That’s hardly enough to deter Vladimir Putin’s ambitions to make Russia the dominant power in Eurasia.

Now, public outrage at the downing of the Malaysian airliner will force western governments to refrain from imposing truly effective sanctions on Russia's subversive activities in the Ukraine in exchange for an international investigation.

That likely will yield little more than already inferred. Russia supplied the missiles and is culpable for enabling separatists who shot down the plane.

Not much else will happen.

Six months from now Russian agents will still be operating in the Ukraine and planning similar uprisings in other former Soviet states.

The United States lacks sufficient military assets in Europe to deter Russian aggression, and Europe’s most powerful state, Germany, lacks the will to stand up to Russia. President Obama has been too successful at paying for entitlements by cutting the defense budget, and German businesses are profiting too much from commerce with Russia.

Obama naively misjudged Putin. There is no reset button for relations with a regime led by a criminal. Putin has plundered businesses, crushed dissent and killed journalists. To believe he can be persuaded through diplomacy or imposing minor economic costs is a fool’s journey.

Putin knows if he unwinds his plans slowly and occasionally appears to engage in meaningful discussions and cooperation, he can dupe Obama and Merkel and co-opt their political constituencies. The latter have already rationalized Russia’s annexation of the Crimea and will do the same if he slices off more of the Ukraine.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/21/downing-mh-17-ukraine-probe-highlights-weakness-us-europe/

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')here's a lot that can be done sanctions wise -- Putin alone has billions offshore, that can be frozen. All those oligarchs' accounts can be frozen. Agent, that would cause a coup in Russia. Or war.

[MD]

The United States is done as a super energy power.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'R')ussia SAM system photographed in eastern Ukraine just prior to the passenger jet shootdown

[Plantagenet]

The way this has played out, one has to wonder if Putin's plan all along wasn't to shoot down a passenger jet and then blame it on the Ukrainians. After all, the pro-Russians shot down a passenger jet and the Russians are blaming it on the Ukrainians.



Maybe the shoot down was intentionally done as part of a particularly inept KGB false flag operation?

[AgentR11]

I doubt its Russia, the separatists firing at an incorrectly or unidentified target is the simplest, and most logical explanation, and doesn't contradict any knowable facts.

No special skill or motive require, just regular human stupidity.

If it was a false flag though.... "inept" is not what I'd call it. Its being very effective at keeping the focus of the mess in the Donbass away from the Crimea. It has the benefit that if it falls through as Russian, the Russians can reasonably suggest that they mis-id'd the plane thinking it was an aircraft from Kiev making a strike on their border forces.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he way this has played out, one has to wonder if Putin's plan all along wasn't to shoot down a passenger jet and then blame it on the Ukrainians. After all, the pro-Russians shot down a passenger jet and the Russians are blaming it on the Ukrainians.



Maybe the shoot down was intentionally done as part of a particularly inept KGB false flag operation?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')he way this has played out, one has to wonder if Putin's plan all along wasn't to shoot down a passenger jet and then blame it on the Ukrainians. After all, the pro-Russians shot down a passenger jet and the Russians are blaming it on the Ukrainians.



Maybe the shoot down was intentionally done as part of a particularly inept KGB false flag operation?

[Withnail]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')

Russia SAM system photographed in eastern Ukraine just prior to the passenger jet shootdown