[threadbear]

Entrippy, It keeps coming up because people delight in the idea of time travel and they like to think things can be known ahead of time. Life stuck in the mundane, in any infinite numbers of ways, patterns, timelines, is tough for those whose idea of travel is limited to climbing into a jalopey (Woops, I just gave myself away!!) and going somewhere. Hey when are my car keys? Let's go.

[entropyfails]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'E')ntrippy, It keeps coming up because people delight in the idea of time travel and they like to think things can be known ahead of time.

[gg3]

There is a chance I know the guy.

A few years ago I was at a party attended by a cross-section of quasi-elite California intellectuals, and overheard two people I know, having a conversation.

In this conversation, one of them, "A", admitted to being "The Traveler." The other, "B", asked some questions which "A" answered, and this convinced "B" that "A's" claim was correct. "B" reacted with astonishment and asked "A" why he did it. "A" replied that he did it to be thought-provoking and get people questioning themselves and their premises.

At the time, I didn't pay too much more attention to the conversation.

When I first read the John Titor material, the name sounded familar, and the phrase "The time traveler" immediately reminded me of the conversation above.

I suppose I could go back and ask "B" about it, and ask him what "A" was up to, and if "A" was in fact the person who created the John Titor character. I haven't talked to "A" since last year, and I don't talk with "B" very often.

I would describe "A" as someone who has an extraordinarily rich interior landscape of mythological and philosophical content. Highly intelligent, highly imaginative, and with excellent writing talents particularly in regard to philosophical and religious topics. He works hard at a normal job and supports a family. He is not someone who would create a "scheme" for his own financial gain. Nor would he do it for publicity or other conventionally ulterior motives. He has his human imperfections, but so do we all.

I think it's entirely consistent with his character that he would do it, as he claimed, to be thought-provoking and get people to question their beliefs.

Whether John Titor was actually this person, I could find out by asking "B," but that will have to wait until I next speak with "B." That could be any time from tomorrow to next year, since "B" travels extensively in his own work and is often out of contact for extended periods of time.

As to whether time travel is possible, the closest thing we can do right now is send information across space via nonlocal quantum entanglement, which appears at the receiving end instantaneously. Concomitant information sent via conventional means would appear at the receiving end at light-speed, which, over astronomical distances, would make it appear to an uninformed observer that the nonlocal information had somehow been sent "before" the "event" occurred.

Various theories postulate that the underlying fabric of our universe contains additional dimensions (axes of measurement), in which case time takes on a space-like characteristic of being traversable. I've been exposed to one of these theories that suggests nine dimensions and appears to hold together fairly well at the mathematical level. However, no one has suggested a viable means for obtaining any practical use of these properties.

As for John Titor and his story, I take that kind of stuff as a kind of science fiction, modern myths that are a good basis for reflecting on our present condition and direction.

Occasionally, storytellers, mythmakers, and suchlike, manage to come up with accurate forecasts. Aside from the issue of statistical probabilities (i.e. enough mythmakers and enough computers, and eventually one of them is bound to make accurate predictions), the human brain is optimized for pattern-seeking activit. "Intuition" (massively parallel processing) is often a source of good information that can later be verified by working back through the rational steps from premises to conclusion.

We'll find out in a few short years how good "John Titor's" intuition was about the trends he could observe when he wrote his stuff.

[Overlyhonest]

Would everyone who believes in Titor sound off here please.

[Barbara]

Overlyhonest,
let me first state that your avatar is really creepy.
Then about Titor, I loved the story and studied it a lot. My thought is that he was an insider from some alphabet agency and leaked what he knew/suspected about the future of the US. Of course, many things happened, many didn't. And about the civil war, (which is not happening so far), I think he "used" it for two purposes: -attract the attention of the libertarians and get more audience; -let the people think about that possibility in case of lose of rights.

[RG73]

How come they didn't have peak oil in Titor's time line?

[UIUCstudent01]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RG73', 'H')ow come they didn't have peak oil in Titor's time line?

[Omnitir]

I don’t think there are many people that can seriously believe in a time traveller from the future. I know I don’t. However it was a very entertaining read, and very thought provocative. It would have been good though if he/they (I think it was a group of intelligent people just having some fun) mentioned oil and it’s important relation with the collapse of society.

If Titor were real, then I guess we don’t have to worry much about PO as it’s obviously a non-event in the future, but start worrying about political unrest and civil war…

[EnemyCombatant]

RG73, IMO peak oil was all throughout John Titor.

I don't have time now, but I'll come back and elaborate. He doesn't explicitly say PO, but the lifestyle in 2036 is quite telling.

Most people don't believe Titor was a time traveller. Let's not get stuck on that point. Let's take Titor for what he was. What was he? That's the more interesting quesiton.

[MagnoliaFan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', 'I') don’t think there are many people that can seriously believe in a time traveller from the future. I know I don’t. However it was a very entertaining read, and very thought provocative. It would have been good though if he/they (I think it was a group of intelligent people just having some fun) mentioned oil and it’s important relation with the collapse of society.

If Titor were real, then I guess we don’t have to worry much about PO as it’s obviously a non-event in the future, but start worrying about political unrest and civil war…

[EnemyCombatant]

Remember the definition of Titor's civil war.

Waco type events every month. If things continue to spiral out of control for the neocons and they stage another terrorist attack which WILL lead to martial law by definition.

The militias won't be feeling it!

I listen to patriot radio and pay attention to the milita conersations. And they are paranoid to hell. If it's a red alert which means martial law, and a US soldier goes up to their crib wanting to take them to a FEMA concentration camp. Ain't happening.

One more point. Titor says that people will have to make a choice. Stay in the cities for protection or go to the rural areas and join the militias. Sounds like a red alert to me.

He said his family chose the latter when a neighbor got arrested for no reason. That's already happening.

Titor wasn't a time traveller, but pehaps he knew the upcoming moves on the grand chessboard??

That's why I say don't get hung up on debunking him. But do pay attention.

[Leanan]

I think he was a Seventh Day Adventist. Not a time traveller, and not someone who really had any kind of inside info. Perhaps having a bit of fun, perhaps trying to convert people to his religion. Perhaps venting a bit against Blue America (the left-leaning east and west coasts).

There has been previous discussion of Titor here:

http://peakoil.com/fortopic222.html

[EnemyCombatant]

Seriously Leanan,

If you read Titor you will realize he's not your average Joe. Even his time travel science was very sound. He was extremely knowledgable in science and geo-politics. Titor may have even been more than one person.

Also, he was VERY insightful. Realize his postings are from November 2000 - March 2001. The things that he say would have been very difficult to realize during that time period.

[Leanan]

He may have been more than one person. But I didn't find him particularly insightful.

Of course, I hang out with a science fiction crowd, which is how I first ran across Titor. By SF standards, what he posted was a pretty mundane "future history."

[SidneyTawl]

The guy that runs John Titors site was on Coast to Coast last night and I listened to him. Not much new, but it seems the "story" of John is really becoming the stuff legends are made of. Anyway I went and browsed the stuff again looking only for references to two things Weather and Energy.

He makes some very interesting statements about the weather and energy. In his future oil is not mentioned. Its solar and hydrogen. All on a local basis. Cars are around but not used the way they are today and very few of them. Rail is the method of moving around. He also states that he was truly amazed at the amount of energy that everyone used in their daily lives. and more

He said also that the people of today are not to blame for the way the world situation is today. It started 30, forty years ago. (Right around the real huge push using oil and economic growth to propel the world, hmm). Also one could say that is around the time the decision was made to trust the Saudi's and other Opec countries etc.

As for the weather. That is very interesting also. It is a little disjointed, but he makes some interesting comments on his weather in the future and the weather of today. There was also a cryptic statement about. "do you remember the story of the Red Sea dividing.

First let me say I think Titor is a Phys-op and a very good one. But whoever it was was either brilliant or had a team of people working over his shoulder along with him as he chatted. What makes me think it is a phys_op is something that is usually not mentioned, and it was not on coast to coast last night. That is why I listened.

The FAXES to Art Bell. (they mentioned he was on the forum, but not the faxes)(you can see and read them on some of titor sites). In his posting during his time 2000-2001 in those few months he talked about many things. He said that he had to go back to 1998 I think and do something and then go on to 190 something and meet his uncle and something about the IBM computer.

WHat he also said he was going to do was send some faxes to Art Bell (he had posted on his forum) when he went back to 1998. Well guess what. Art does have faxes from someone claiming to be John. However if you read them they don't jive real well with what John had to say in 2001. Point is someone went to a lot of trouble to send faxes in 1998 or so. Wait a couple of years and then come back and start posting again. ANd then leave and disappear to never be heard of again (YET).

WHat news in the Titor world, Well there is a ballet or interpretive dance scheduled in Los Anglese based on the Titor writings. A documentary has just been finished, but what I saw and downloaded didn't do much for me. His "mother" has written a book and supposedly given the makers of the documentary some "info and/or article that will help prove the existence of John. Of course his mother and all others concerned with the book can only be reached thru and attorney.

Oh and by the by. John said he lived in Fla. According to the person that claims to be his mother and John stayed with while he was on his time trip (living with himself as a boy and saying he was his "uncle"). John's mother and John as a little boy packed up and moved to Omaha I believe.

Right before all those hurricanes hit Fla. last year, and it appears this year. This was done by the way by the person to be John's mother before the hurricanes hit. The mother moved and this info was known because of the book and the attorney, and then the hurricanes came. Its a good good internet hoax, or perhaps real, there is no real proof.

http://www.johntitor.com

It has the "snips" of all his statements from the various boards he posted on. He started posting on a board dedicated to "time travel" and then moved to other forums and Coasttocoasts forum (which Art closed down some say because of the faxes and John). Go to the other sites that have all the posts that go "around" what John only had to say. What the others said also, to put it in context. Guy knew his math and theoritical stuff fo sure.

OH and one last teaser. John did say that work on Cancer had been improved. He mentioned that they used viruses to fight cancer. Go check the info that is just coming out about that research and it seems to be working. They have started to use viruse to fight cancer. (this was over 5 years ago he said this)(don't know if that research had been started yet, I doubt it, but I don't know) Good be a lucky guess.

Real, physop, or just a smart person using history and more to "see" the future. who knows. But man he seems to have had the gist o what is going to happen down the road. John Titor stuff is a good read when you have nothing to do. You will see why so many people are following the story.

[some_guy282]

I agree it's a good read. Interesting stuff. I don't believe his story is true either though. Psy Op? Maybe.

[SidneyTawl]

HEhe,

I just had a thought.

What if he was sorta like "our" deep throat". He knew what was planned for later that year, he knew climate change was upon us. He knew peak oil was right around the corner,

He knew that these things would bring about much that does seem to be happening, but a little slower that he thought.

Many people are now paying great attention to things and question them. Might not be as many if Titor hadn't started the ball rolling.

As for physop. Well the guy knew Physics up one side and down the other. Maybe not a physop in the "we're gonna get you vein".

A counter physop in the we're gonna try and stop you vein.

hehe.

ya never know.

[kambei]

John Titor is just someome who decided to play a prank. He's certainly very insightful, but he's just an ordinary guy who decided to have a bit of fun. Let's not think it's any more than that, because it isn't.

[SidneyTawl]

Kambei,

Glad to hear you have as good a crystal ball to tell the future and what is real and not just like ol John boy.

[MJ]

I'm on the net for a fairly long time now, and the most elaborate and well thought-out hoax in internet times must be the John Titor hoax. For those who never heard of it (the few), I suggest a Google search and 2 days of intense comprehensive reading, but in short: John Titor was a guy who showed early in 2000, on an internet bulletin board. He claimed to be a genuine time traveller, who came from the year 2038. He was here on a little sidetrip for personal reasons, but his main mission was retrieving an IBM computer, made in the seventies... check out the whole story on johntitor.com and many, many other sites dedicated to him. Truly fascinating was the fact that his stories were very consistent, and hard to debunk. He would never evade questions and never made a slip up in his tales. Anyway, I'm trying to say here, this was a brilliantly executed hoax.

But his stories and envisions of our society (the things he said had happened in his youth, which is now in our "timeframe") are now starting to look very real.
It shows that, whoever created the JT hoax, had a strong and clear vision of the way we as a society would evolve.
His tales envisioned the (rigged) election of a neo-conservative administration, the growing individualism of society and total apathy towards anyone else's problems and much much more things that start to emerge now (Israel - Iran nucleair conflict, civil liberties being eroded under the false pretence of national security, division of the USA in two groups of people - those in cities who lay their lives and freedom (what is left of it) in governments hands and the people who fled to the rural areas to avoid the same thing. This would lead to armed conflict in the streets.)

The world he describes as being his own in 2038 is very similar to a self-sustainable community, much like the ones many people here see as the post PO community. Allthough very advanced technology still exists, be it in hands of the government. One of the jokes that kept coming back, was it's hard to get a hold of bicycle tires in his future.

Anyway, anyone who is up for a good read, and is not afraid of some doom and gloom fiction writing, should do a Google on this.

For the record: this IS a hoax! There are still many people who are convinced it was all real... I think you can rest assure it's not. But nonetheless the creator of this has a profound insight and knowledge in politics and socio-economic principles.

It was the current events that are going on now in New Orleans that made me think back to this. The sight of soldiers pointing guns at their country fellowman, the looting, the anarchy... it looked like a little civil war as described by John Titor.