[Timo]

Ibon, very well said. That whole notion really makes you think and wonder what the word "intelligence" really means. And yes! Dolphins are already very self aware. They mourn their dead, and even ceremoneously acnknowldedge the death of a family or pod member. Dolphins even have unique languages and individual names that are taught to each other through generations. Too bad their living in an environment that we're destroying. We're so smart we're killing off the entire planet.

[dsula]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')these creatures have no incentive to use technology..

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')these creatures have no incentive to use technology..

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')these creatures have no incentive to use technology..

[dsula]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')To test your hypothesis of this inevitability we need a larger sample size of tool using sentient species. Too bad we don't have that.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', ' ')these creatures have no incentive to use technology..

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')To test your hypothesis of this inevitability we need a larger sample size of tool using sentient species. Too bad we don't have that.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', ' ')What would humans do if we were equipped to naturally breath under water? My guess (again) would be that we would pretty quickly figure out how to apply that newfound attribute to nefarious and military uses. It's our nature to apply any human or technological ability to gain congtrol of others, or to lessen the control of others. We are a combative species. Not alone, in that respect, but it's what we live for. It's how our brains have evolved. Tools and technology only encourages and reinforces that combative instinct.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')And sentient species staying within carrying capacity in harmony with their environments in other parts of the universe are not the ones broadcasting radio waves.

So Fermi's paradox in the meantime remains a mystery.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')And sentient species staying within carrying capacity in harmony with their environments in other parts of the universe are not the ones broadcasting radio waves.

So Fermi's paradox in the meantime remains a mystery.

[Ibon]

Another point of view

http://2012thebigpicture.wordpress.com/ ... rup-video/

Lecture from former US Military Bob Dean on the Extraterrestrial Coverup [video]

Are we bored enough yet with reality?

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'A')re we bored enough yet with reality?

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'A')re we bored enough yet with reality?

[joewp]

It has always seemed to me that the Drake Equation (on which the Fermi Paradox is based) was really, really optimistic. While there might be billions of Earth-like planets around, the chances of an intelligent, self-aware creature with the necessary combination of characteristics to be even able to conceive of radio waves or interstellar travel is probably vanishingly small to begin with. And based on our own example, the time period that transmitting radio waves is active in any civilization would be of a relative short duration (under 10,000 years) and when we're talking about hundreds or millions or billions of light years, the chance that those years would coincide with any other civilization's period of ability to receive them is even smaller. Heck, a civilization 10,000ly away could have been broadcasting their version of the Lucy Show for a thousand years and they suffered their form of Armageddon (nulcear, volcanic, extra-terrestrial, whatever) 10,000 years and six months before our first receiver was operational.

Finding evidence of another species of 'intelligent' life always seemed to me like two needles in a field of huge haystacks trying to find each other. And I think Drake and Fermi were being a little species-centric thinking that intelligence is only defined by the ability to send radio waves. Whales communicate over thousands of miles and they don't need radio waves.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joewp', 'A')nd I think Drake and Fermi were being a little species-centric thinking that intelligence is only defined by the ability to send radio waves.

[joewp]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joewp', 'A')nd I think Drake and Fermi were being a little species-centric thinking that intelligence is only defined by the ability to send radio waves.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'A')nd its the physics of power, uniform throughout the universe, that make it so.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'A') dolphin is in no way "special" in having some enlightened knowledge about staying within carrying capacity, it is an intelligent species that does not have the physical morphology to manipulate its environment and the ecosystem it lives in is not creating any selective pressures toward tool use. It's evolution going forward could continue for millions of years, its intelligence could evolve further and it could remain for the remainder of its existence as a species without using tools and stay within carrying capacity. There could be many other sentient species in the universe that are similar and not broadcasting themselves.

Human intelligence that has moved us toward disrupting so radically our environment has unique components that are present in addition to our sentient intelligence; specifically an apposing thumb and ecosystems that selected for tool use. That was my main point.