I think this is why there's such a backlash, among red state type of folks, and btw that's who are all in the military to start with:
a) Americans are just confused, they see all these anti-American things Berghdahl said and then here is the president holding him out like a hero.
b) We traded five taliban combatants for him. Conservatives already think O wanted to close gitmo, so they're thinking he's just doing this lightly, clearing out Gitmo via prisoner swaps -- when maybe there was another way to get the soldier back.
That's why Congress passed that law, about prisoner swaps, because they don't want Obama emptying Gitmo with prisoner swaps etc. -- and the Obama admin utterly ignored that law.
c) So that's a confluence of things, right or wrong a lot of conservative Americans already doubt Obama's patriotism, so he does this big prisoner swap, and then it looks like they hold Berghdahl out to be a hero, but here's Bergdahl saying all these anti-American things.
Does that make sense to you guys? I'm not a right winger, but I understand people, and this whole thing just doesn't look right to them.
At minimum, this administration SHOULD NOT HAVE MADE A BIG DEAL and nationally publicized this soldier's release, IT WAS UNFAIR to the soldier and his family.
It had to be sloppyness. It's just political malpractice, to have the President linked to someone saying such things about the US Army and America and the war, that's just a disaster, somebody screwed up badly and should have given the President distance from this. Rather, they tried to use it and may as well have put Berghdahl on a Democratic Party campaign poster and now that's caused political damage, with the anti-american angle.
Was really stupid of them. Do you all get what I'm saying? That yes, maybe O did the right thing with the swap, but by making a big deal of it and the rose garden and press conferences with the family, they've got the President too close to this guy and then all these anti-American things come out -- so that makes it looks like those are Obama's views too. That's why this is such a big mess. Along with the Gitmo issue, and ignoring that law.
It's just so bad politically, all around, for one thing you've got O's people boxed into defending Bergdahl, while all these emails come out and America is so Horrible and Awful stuff and the upshot is that the President's own people has him linked to these views now.
Would be different if he had kept it at arm's length, making it clear the President doesn't approve of the soldiers' anti-american views etc.
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POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by Sixstrings » Sun 08 Jun 2014, 15:46:20
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by Sixstrings » Sun 08 Jun 2014, 16:18:40
Like, as far as I know, Obama hasn't even said anything to counter all these emails that came out.
What's up with that?
It's like they're locked in, boxed into defending Bergdahl because they're defending their decision, but they may have a lemon on their hands and Obama should have said something to make it clear that he does not share Bergdahl's views.
What's up with that?
It's like they're locked in, boxed into defending Bergdahl because they're defending their decision, but they may have a lemon on their hands and Obama should have said something to make it clear that he does not share Bergdahl's views.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Sun 08 Jun 2014, 16:22:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by AgentR11 » Sun 08 Jun 2014, 16:21:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ')It's just like the 1930s, all over again, except now we have globalism and market realities and it stopped him.
Except... it didn't.
He bagged the prize.
The rest of this fluff is essentially fighting on the enemies turf until they get tired and say, uncle.
When this is all done, Crimea will be as Russian as Moscow, and Eastern Ukraine will be a giant, desolate, money sucking leach hanging off EU welfare and aid, bloated and ill. In the meantime, Russian Oligarchs will have traded a few short years of monetary inconvenience for a trillion or so dollars worth of FF resources; Russian nationalists will have captured and enhanced the functionality of Sevastopol, and Chinese and Koreans will have acquired a non-dollar trading provider of natural gas and crude oil.
None of the above furthers the interests of the United States, and we're gonna get to pay billions for the privilege of carrying it out.
Yes we are, as we are,
And so shall we remain,
Until the end.
And so shall we remain,
Until the end.
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by Sixstrings » Sun 08 Jun 2014, 16:25:39
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'N')one of the above furthers the interests of the United States, and we're gonna get to pay billions for the privilege of carrying it out.
Well, USA got the rest of Ukraine. That place will be as solid pro-American as Poland, one day.
And we don't hold anyone in chains -- Ukraine can leave whenever it likes, and will never get a hammer down on it from us pressuring them against a trade deal with someone. We have willing allies, not subjected people that are stuck with us.
If anything, US should have done more with Ukraine, instead of being so lukewarm through it all. But it'll work out -- Poland is a good ally, Poland gets a lot of American investment, Ukraine will go the same route too.
We're off topic and it's my fault, let's wrap up meta issues and stick to Bergdahl.
What you think about that, Agent? Are you seeing what I'm seeing? That the President is boxed into defending Bergdahl, and it all looks bad with these emails and Obama can't even say anything to counter that so it looks like he's defending the anti-Americanism when really he's just defending his decision.
But it's a mess. They shouldn't have made a big show of it and got the President linked to a lemon.
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by PrestonSturges » Sun 08 Jun 2014, 18:28:15
John McCain has claimed that these members of the Taliban were directly involved in 9/11.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/08/j ... -bergdahl/
He's directly contradicting the 9/11 Commission report.
Gee, why does John McCain, who cooperated with the Viet Cong, have a bone to pick.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/08/j ... -bergdahl/
He's directly contradicting the 9/11 Commission report.
Gee, why does John McCain, who cooperated with the Viet Cong, have a bone to pick.
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Re: POW Bergdahl, "ashamed to be an American"
by AgentR11 » Sun 08 Jun 2014, 20:34:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I')f anything, US should have done more with Ukraine, instead of being so lukewarm through it all. But it'll work out -- Poland is a good ally, Poland gets a lot of American investment, Ukraine will go the same route too.
That'll be sorta-fine for us. Ukraine will 'get' to keep the East, after its been turned into a bombed out ruin. Russia doesn't *need* Eastern Ukraine, though there are existing manufacturers of military parts there that will be annoying to replace over the next few years. However, as soon as Kiev started the shelling, those facilities and their skilled personnel had to be written off as war losses; they'll never survive intact, the months or years of guerrilla warfare to come in E. Ukraine.
This is the problem with the West's take on the whole mess. The prize, is and always was Crimea, and in particular Sevastopol. Unless we're willing to make a military air strike on a Russian naval base with bunches of Russian ships, including (likely) nuclear armed ships, in port; then the game was already over before it started. As we aren't willing to go to war with Russia over this issue, Sevastopol and Crimea are done.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e're off topic and it's my fault, let's wrap up meta issues and stick to Bergdahl.
Long as you don't feel you have a right to both first and last word on bashing Russia on this thread, you can leave my above response as last, and return to Bergdahl.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat you think about that, Agent? Are you seeing what I'm seeing? That the President is boxed into defending Bergdahl, and it all looks bad with these emails and Obama can't even say anything to counter that so it looks like he's defending the anti-Americanism when really he's just defending his decision.
I kinda think it is a win for Obama, a repulsive win, but a win none the less. Nothing that is being said about Bergdahl or the exchange right now account for anything. Utterly meaningless. We *know* very little. Specifically, we know he was under the control of parties that the US has, in its slimy way, declared war on. We had some of theirs under our control. Military tradition involves prisoner swaps; usually the more powerful/noble party gets screwed a bit in the transaction, but that's just the way it is, and always has been. We traded some high value prisoners for a mediocre value prisoner, par for the course.
Bergdahl himself, will not be in any condition to offer any sort of rational explanation for many months; and its probably in our interests to let the process go very slowly in order to perhaps gather some intelligence that we might not otherwise have access to. We start messing with him to quicken his recovery, we'll probably also break good, available intel. He's still in the armed forces; probably isn't much use as a combatant right now, but is useful in this other way; so let it be.
Looking for someone to harass though is just dumb.
I'd say Obama and the right wing media both get extra scum points for making the issue political. But American politics is high on the scum meter right now anyway, so... meh.
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Until the end.
And so shall we remain,
Until the end.
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