[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'I')t used to take a computer the size of a bunkbed all sorts of energy to calculate simple addition, now a computer can do a million calculations a second on less energy than a lightbulb.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'I')'m still confused as to why a service economy is so lamentable.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'I')'m still confused as to why a service economy is so lamentable.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'P')art of the service sector is your basic lawn/landscaping or pool service.
This type of work is indeed slowly replaced over time technologically by more efficient machines powered by Energy Scabs.

But part of the service sector is also professional services like engineering firms. As more and more regulations to comply with crop up, and more extreme design and build projects are necessary, this drives both technology and services.

Complexity collapses eventually, I 'magine.

[Loki]

Newfie, what role does the insurance industry play in adding unnecessary complexity to your field?

Re. the OP, the "service" industry is such a broad category as to be almost meaningless. Just one example, accountants count as service industry, but without them there would be almost no mining, farming, manufacturing, etc.

That said, I do agree with Pops' point about energy being the driving force behind the growth of the service employment, and more broadly, hyperspecialization.

Some "services" are worse than others. One of the more pernicious trends in the US economy in recent decades is financialization, which accounts for more and more of our GDP.

[sunweb]

Pops - I salute your continued wisdom. Thanks.
You might even call them Energy Scabs because they broke the back of the workers by undercutting them so completely the workers could not compete. Energy slaves gave a 100:1 energy return on investment! I don't know the return that a human slave provides even on starvation rations but I'm thinking it isn't nearly that good.

Energy scabs took the place of not only the 40% who were the farming and fishing ag "makers" in the 19th century, they took the place of a good portion of the other 40% who became the manufacturing/extracting makers by the mid-twentieth century.

So the upshot is the whole hand-wringing bit about the loss of the "middle class" and inequality and falling worker participation amounts to what? Not luddism; luddites hate technology because it eliminates the need for the skilled worker permanently. But no matter how many times we stoop and grovel at the totem of technology it isn't tech that has made more and more of us dishwashers. It is the Energy Scabs that replaced us through brute force.

Take away the brute force of that virtually free workforce and watch the technology temple come crashing down.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ewfie, what role does the insurance industry play in adding unnecessary complexity to your field?

[Pops]

Here is a long article at FEASTA which may or may not be along the lines of this thread, I couldn't get through the whole thing but maybe someone can give the Readers Digest version.

[Serial_Worrier]

When TEOTWAWKI hits, basket weaving will be in great demand again!

[Newfie]

Pops,

I read through the article you linked above.

He has some interesting insights into the mechanics of business'. Bottom line is we have set up a system that is very demanding and unrewarding and time consuming. The smart person will step back and draw limits.

You might like some of his stats on how much energy is used in the service sector, pretty well makes your point.

I do think he missed some bigger picture points, but this is only an excerpt from a bigger book.

[Loki]

Thanks Newfie, I've been mildly interested in the insurance industry and its power to do both good and bad.

Although I avoid bureaucracy like the Black Death, I see exactly what you mean based on some prominent stories in Oregon lately. $248 million spent on a health insurance website that doesn't work and never will, spearheaded by a rather large corporation, Oracle (another several million will be spent switching to the federal health care site). $190 million spent on a bridge that will never be built. Astonishing waste of resources.

[Newfie]

Loki,

While I think the author Pops linked has no experience with the engineering process and missed some key points he did a good job of describing how large companies generate process, which generates process, which generates.....

I can only imagine it is the same in all large groups.

A bit ago I hears a news report where the City (Philadelphia) reported it was hamstrung on capital projects as each one takes four to five years to get through the 250 step approval process. There are about 200 work days per year, so each step takes about 3 to 4 days. On the micro level, that sounds pretty good. On the process level, not so much.

[Newfie]

BTW, I recently also heard that the idea brainstorming in groups fosters innovation is BS. It came out of some old poorly done study. If you really look at it, it's some geek, alone in a room, where he can think intensely, that fosters innovation.

[dinopello]

I'll tell you what - somebody "made" the automated systems by which my company now does travel booking, expense reporting, purchasing, and IT support tickets but it was a whole lot better for the end-user when you could just pick up a phone and talk to a person who was providing the "service". Arg

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'W')e are actually mostly pretty dumb. Our (Job's) "genius" is narrow and self-serving and really just a fad. He was so sure of himself and Apple's brilliance, that he missed very important clues.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'I')'ll tell you what - somebody "made" the automated systems by which my company now does travel booking, expense reporting, purchasing, and IT support tickets but it was a whole lot better for the end-user when you could just pick up a phone and talk to a person who was providing the "service". Arg