[Simon_R]

Hi Pops

I agree, I spoke to our horses and mentioned 1000acres, they are now on strike (French horses)

We are in a different position here, people are still bemoaning the loss of the 10 hectare farms and the evil 40-60 hectare farms.

However I do agree, scalability is not possible.

However (yep two howevers) if the farm "A" can manage an acre of product for less than Farm "B" then they can produce a product cheaper, the problem is ..... will a major purchaser purchase it ... no.

but how many 1000 acre farms are surviving on cheap credit

Simon

[efarmer]

I believe the pressure will build over the next 4 decades until we have to largely cease growing crops for animal feed, and back up to crops for direct human consumption, with animal flesh and nutrients replaced by insect nutrients and proteins that are processed locally or regionally into acceptable forms for consumption and not presented in a recognizable bug form. Economic pressures, water resource demands, energy input requirements, etc. will combine to make the meat farming business shift from mammals to something more efficient in conversion of edible and potable inputs to edible outputs.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'F')arms will grow their own biodiesel, which will probably be refined in local co-ops. There is an oil crop for nearly any climate, including canola, sunflowers, and peanuts.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')There is nothing more efficient than livestock, especially ruminants for converting sunlight to human food. The animals go out and do the hard work. You just have to round them up and slaughter the poor buggers.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
') *snipped images of 6 mcmuffin comparison*

[peterjames]

Things are certainly going to change for agriculture in a fossil free world. Electrification isnt going to come close to maintaining life as we know it. People living on the 27th floor of their apartment block in (insert city here), are going to realise they cant maintain their life. Food stuffs grown on the farm (in smaller quantities than today) 200 kilometres from the city are going to be consumed way before they reach the city. Food requirements will lead to a mass exodus from cities. Farmers wont even bother to grow crops, as they will continually be stolen.

[Shaved Monkey]

When we get flooded in,its an annual event here lasting for upto a few weeks but usually only a few days
First thing the boat brings in is bread and milk and mail.
During the major floods when roads were closed for weeks they bought in flour for the baker because they couldnt move loaves up the freeway it was helicoptered in by the government.
The baker then started gouging us with $6 loafs.
Except for the doomers who had heaps of UHT milk and lots of flour.
Pretty sure most of the locals have supplies before the wet season starts.

Agriculture locally
WE have a dairy farm up the road that processes and markets its own milk locally.
Family business, pretty sure he will continue as the his main energy inputs are electricity as the cows fertilise the grass they then eat.
Beef farms in the area are all massive stations of low input grass fed animals.
Mustering can and usually is done by horse.(or motor bikes,if theirs still cheap oil and good prices,they use chopper )
If it becomes too expensive to transport them to market he grows less and droves a few down the road to be butchered and sold in town.
A few olive farms down the road will be able to fill local needs if transport makes other markets too expensive.
The hills are full of cheese makers, moonshiners and home brewers,the hobby farms are full of pigs, ducks, sheep,geese and chickens ,the dams,rivers and oceans are full of fish.
Theres plenty of wild animals.

and best thing is we are many expensive to get too miles from nowhere.

So for some agriculture will do just fine.
Best thing I can do is grow my own veg, fruit,nuts and berries as food is not going to get cheaper.
The lower your inputs the better.
I should be right for proteins.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Simon_R', 'H')i Pops

I agree, I spoke to our horses and mentioned 1000acres, they are now on strike (French horses)

...but how many 1000 acre farms are surviving on cheap credit

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peterjames', 'F')armers wont even bother to grow crops, as they will continually be stolen.

[MikeinNeb]

I read an interesting report (you-all probably are well aware of it, I'll hunt it up and post it if you are not...) that thesis was that the last 300 years are an anomaly in human history brought on by the explosion of technical advancement coupled with the utilization of fossil fuels. He argues that since truly beneficial technological advancements and fossil fuels have run their course, economic growth will return to the <1% figure its been thru most all of existence. He places technological advances like indoor plumbing, electricity, and the internal combustion engine far above the internet, cell phones etc. Specifically, he ranks the elimination of dependence on the horse as a huge advancement; Health improvements because of no more poop and urine everywhere in city streets, the labor involved in maintaining horses, the horse costing as much to maintain as its worth every year...etc. And my personal experience with horses confirms that I would MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, rather have a bicycle and a small tractor. (I actually have a couple of old walk behind tractors with multiple attachments I'm trying to return to operation. I also am trying to get a "Positive Harvest" small farm going on my 23 acres here in Nebraska.) A local, biodiesel production Cooperative sounds ideal for decentralization.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'F')arms will grow their own biodiesel, which will probably be refined in local co-ops. There is an oil crop for nearly any climate, including canola, sunflowers, and peanuts.

[Lore]

Who knows how to do much of anything that would count when most of the modern trappings of society falls away?

We live in the age of the specialist that is confined to understanding a few facets of our techno world. No single person or isolated group of people can replicate an iPad, a television, a microwave oven, or even a tractor for that matter. At best, if the interconnecting parts of human knowledge and effort become broken there maybe a few who can scavenge from the remains to jigger a few rudimentary things together to last a few more years.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'F')arms will grow their own biodiesel, which will probably be refined in local co-ops. There is an oil crop for nearly any climate, including canola, sunflowers, and peanuts.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '[')
Peanuts can yield 50 or 100 gallons of bio diesel per acre. How much fuel does it take to plow a 160 acre "quarter section" of 1/4 mile square? Probably more than fifty and less than a thousand. What about a 40 acre 1/8 mile square? I just don't know, never having driven a tractor.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '[')
Peanuts can yield 50 or 100 gallons of bio diesel per acre. How much fuel does it take to plow a 160 acre "quarter section" of 1/4 mile square? Probably more than fifty and less than a thousand. What about a 40 acre 1/8 mile square? I just don't know, never having driven a tractor.

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . as I have posted on this board (and others) I have spent many years developing a precision farming system that can be powered by the mains, solar panels, a small IC engine or draft animal/human power.

We have proven the system works, is scalable and useful versions could be made out of bamboo and bicycle wheels. Things are not tough enough yet for people to think outside the box an accept radical concepts . . . development of the system has ceased due to poor health and lack of funds.

Please don't nerp on with what I know to be bullshit about the future of farming and ignorant posts about planting corn by hand . . . I can make a corn planter that puts seeds in at a walking pace in one motion . . . very old technology.

Various groups and individuals around the world are working on rotary and cable cultivation systems that use a fraction of the horsepower of conventional agriculture.

Fifty years ago the Russians and Kiwis were running conventional and crawler tractors from the mains and back in England in about 1948 my grandad had an electric walk behind tractor in his market garden . . . I believe they were very common in Germany with thousands of small plots rigged up with overhead wires to support loops of power cable.

And while I'm ranting jump on Google earth and have a look at the terraces in Laos and Thailand . . . there are places in the world where nothing can/will out produce trained water buffalo and millions of pairs of little brown hands . . . agriculture will continue.

Cheers.