[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'I')f we are going to survive and prevail on this planet, this system will have to go. I see too much in my daily corporate life to have vtsnowedin's optimism.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')Considering the number of years Democratic Liberals have been in power post WW2 and the socialist programs they have put in place the United States is now very far from a true Capitalist system. We now have fifty percent of the population taking out more then they are putting in a condition that can't go on indefinitely.

[radon1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')No as long as there are two people left and a meal that needs to be aquired there will be capitalism.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('radon1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')No as long as there are two people left and a meal that needs to be aquired there will be capitalism.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('radon1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')No as long as there are two people left and a meal that needs to be aquired there will be capitalism.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'O')h well, this really does wrap it up for me. One cannot reason with the something out of nothing crowd.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'M')y point would be, that is how things work. Capitalism recognizes the actual nature of humans and layers a system on top of that nature. It is the only economic system that is successful in large countries over significant periods, because it never asks anyone to go against their true nature.

I have all due respect for the Buddha, Christ, and other prophets/philosophers. But I have to note that none was especially successful at changing basic human nature. Capitalism does not attempt to change the nature of mankind, it simply recognizes what it is and works with it.

I believe that all attempts to change the nature of man are doomed to failure. The end result of the fossil fuel boom may be a species with a new set of sensibilities and beliefs, after the boom ends and more people die than have existed in the world before. The coming mass extinction of humanity is an example of the scale of event that will kick evolution into high gear. The Four Horsemen will reap humanity, the few survivors will either evolve into wiser creatures or devolve into brutes.

Either way, change is coming. But it will never be true that absent an acute survival crisis, people will implement the impractical and unworkable schemes of an obscure philosopher (pick any of them) in defiance of their animal nature.

Nature is cruel, as they say.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')A Capitalist system can shrink as well as it can expand depending on prevailing conditions. This adaptability will allow many capitalist to survive while socialist citizens starve waiting for central government to provide.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'I')f we are going to survive and prevail on this planet, this system will have to go. I see too much in my daily corporate life to have vtsnowedin's optimism.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'N')o as long as there are two people left and a meal that needs to be aquired there will be capitalism.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'N')o as long as there are two people left and a meal that needs to be aquired there will be capitalism.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'N')o as long as there are two people left and a meal that needs to be aquired there will be capitalism.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'N')o as long as there are two people left and a meal that needs to be aquired there will be capitalism.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')If you have a point there it is so poorly written that I fail to see it. It is the middle of the night here and I'm up from insomnia so perhaps a bit fuzzy but really you put Ethiopia and Angola up as examples for the West to follow?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')If you have a point there it is so poorly written that I fail to see it. It is the middle of the night here and I'm up from insomnia so perhaps a bit fuzzy but really you put Ethiopia and Angola up as examples for the West to follow?

[americandream]

It's quite difficult explaining social economy and historical tendencies to someone who cannot understand the concept. Not that it is Your fault. Generally, material dialectIcism foxes even Marxists who think that the orIgin of systems is a normative issue. All you need to remember are the following points:

1 Lack of resources;

2 Adaptive shifts;

3 Generational evolution.

These forces I try and explain influence our lives daily, changing us in ways we aren't even aware of.

[Beery1]

The problem with these arguments about capitalism vs. socialism is that it's impossible to define the terms capitalism and socialism in a meaningful way to all parties. So we get circular arguments on each side that get us nowhere. In situations like this, nothing beats personal experience, and I am in the unusual situation of having spent two decades living in what many regard as having been a socialist country followed by two decades living in what many regard as a capitalist country.

Based on my experience of 20 years living in a welfare state (the UK) and another 20 years living in a state with little or no social safety net (the USA), all I can say for sure is that I preferred the welfare state. Sure, it had its problems, as do all systems, but at least it seemed fairer and more caring than the system I've got myself stuck in right now. If it were not for my American wife's emotional need to stay close to family, and if not for the fact that much of the social safety net has been dismantled in the UK due to the policies of Thatcher and Blair, I'd move back to England in a heartbeat.

[Strummer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'N')o as long as there are two people left and a meal that needs to be aquired there will be capitalism.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', 'T')he problem with these arguments about capitalism vs. socialism is that it's impossible to define the terms capitalism and socialism in a meaningful way to all parties. So we get circular arguments on each side that get us nowhere. In situations like this, nothing beats personal experience, and I am in the unusual situation of having spent two decades living in what many regard as having been a socialist country followed by two decades living in what many regard as a capitalist country.

Based on my experience of 20 years living in a welfare state (the UK) and another 20 years living in a state with little or no social safety net (the USA), all I can say for sure is that I preferred the welfare state. Sure, it had its problems, as do all systems, but at least it seemed fairer and more caring than the system I've got myself stuck in right now. If it were not for my American wife's emotional need to stay close to family, and if not for the fact that much of the social safety net has been dismantled in the UK due to the policies of Thatcher and Blair, I'd move back to England in a heartbeat.

[Quinny]

IMHO greed is nurtured. My children (and their friends) always love to share.