[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', 'D')emand is not the same as decline, demand can be adjusted as necessary to meet supply by the mechanism of price. Little changes in behavior

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', 'D')emand is not the same as decline, demand can be adjusted as necessary to meet supply by the mechanism of price. Little changes in behavior

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', 'L')ittle changes in behavior, such as what has happened in the US since peak price in 2008, being but one example.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', 'N')ever really bought into the type of "constant growth" meme advocated by ralphy, way too many examples of non-growth, therefore negating the idea that infinite growth is somehow a "requirement" as you put it.

[John_A]

Ad hom deleted, user permanently banned - davep

[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')ure John, distract with an logical fallacy, an ad hom, red herring all rolled into one.

[ralfy]

I cannot respond to John's posts because he is in my ignore list.

FWIW, I don't see how examples counter aggregate information, as seen in constant GDP growth for the global economy:

"Projected GDP, 1990-2030"

http://rainforests.mongabay.com/energy/gdp.html

which should be the case given around a quadrillion dollars (notional value) in unregulated derivatives:

"Top Derivatives Expert Estimates Size of the Global Derivatives Market at $1,200 Trillion Dollars … 20 Times Larger than the Global Economy"

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/05/ ... arket.html

leading to demand destruction due to fallout from financial speculation coupled with increased consumption due to the same:

"Peak Oil Demand is Already a Huge Problem"

http://ourfiniteworld.com/2013/04/11/pe ... e-problem/

and the latter expected as oil is needed to ensure continuous economic growth:

"How much oil growth do we need to support world GDP growth?"

http://ourfiniteworld.com/2012/07/18/ho ... dp-growth/

Given a 2-pct increase in energy demand the last three decades, as explained in this report:

http://www.worldenergyoutlook.org/publi ... /weo-2010/

we will need the equivalent of one Saudi Arabia every seven years to maintain growth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK730U0Q4NU

And given a growing global middle class:

"The rise of the global middle class"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22956470

definitely more.

[AirlinePilot]

I find it interesting that so many folks, even intelligent ones, cannot connect the dots between economic growth and the need for abundant cheap energy. Without the cheap energy part our growth based systems falter. Right now that cheap energy means Oil, plain and simple.

WTI went over 100$/bbl today.

The other difficult to grasp part is that our fractional reserve banking system propped up by fiat money REQUIRES the promise of economic growth for it to work long term. It seems to follow that some of, if not a larger part, of the economic growth problems the planet is feeling may actually be related to our current source of cheap energy becoming a "bit" more expensive. Its a difficult premise to deny.

[sparky]

.
Another thing which get me smirking is the obsession with the price at the bowser
must be the American fetish with individual motorcar .
guess what , lot of countries are thriving with gas in the 20$ a gallon price
energy for driving to the shops is irrelevant but for Walmart management
a country energy is much more than that ,
it's the input price for manufacturing , processing and distributing
people cars are an icing on top

[dolanbaker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sparky', '.')
Another thing which get me smirking is the obsession with the price at the bowser
must be the American fetish with individual motorcar .
guess what , lot of countries are thriving with gas in the 20$ a gallon price
energy for driving to the shops is irrelevant but for Walmart management
a country energy is much more than that ,
it's the input price for manufacturing , processing and distributing
people cars are an icing on top

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sparky', '.')
Another thing which get me smirking is the obsession with the price at the bowser
must be the American fetish with individual motorcar .
guess what , lot of countries are thriving with gas in the 20$ a gallon price
energy for driving to the shops is irrelevant but for Walmart management
a country energy is much more than that ,
it's the input price for manufacturing , processing and distributing
people cars are an icing on top

[dolanbaker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sparky', '.')
Another thing which get me smirking is the obsession with the price at the bowser
must be the American fetish with individual motorcar .
guess what , lot of countries are thriving with gas in the 20$ a gallon price
energy for driving to the shops is irrelevant but for Walmart management
a country energy is much more than that ,
it's the input price for manufacturing , processing and distributing
people cars are an icing on top

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sparky', '.')
Another thing which get me smirking is the obsession with the price at the bowser
must be the American fetish with individual motorcar .
guess what , lot of countries are thriving with gas in the 20$ a gallon price
energy for driving to the shops is irrelevant but for Walmart management
a country energy is much more than that ,
it's the input price for manufacturing , processing and distributing
people cars are an icing on top

[dolanbaker]

The word is "free" not free.

edit: as in the cost of transport will be hidden in the costs of the products as opposed to being a visible "delivery charge".

As for 24/7 consumerism, well that has been around ever since the first on-line shop went on-line.

All I was referring to was the reduction in fuel use by switching from individuals going to the shops in their own vehicles and doing it on-line and getting the stuff delivered to their houses.

The (anti)capitalists stuff is the tangent that I was referring to.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dolanbaker', 'T')he word is "free" not free.

edit: as in the cost of transport will be hidden in the costs of the products as opposed to being a visible "delivery charge".

As for 24/7 consumerism, well that has been around ever since the first on-line shop went on-line.

All I was referring to was the reduction in fuel use by switching from individuals going to the shops in their own vehicles and doing it on-line and getting the stuff delivered to their houses.

The (anti)capitalists stuff is the tangent that I was referring to.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'b')ump