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JD comes BACK!!!

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby dsula » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 07:04:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '
')
Well, we know that TOD is toast, therefore that part is true. And as far as JDs ideas going on, sure they will here. Here is a classic, and will be right for some time in the future yet

http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/200 ... -than.html


Readers should consider JB's comment found below the blog entry.


Yeah, I remember reading that. The most efficient living arrangement is to cram everybody into one giant super high density apartment complex and have one freight rain of supplies arrive each day. I sure hope this is not society's answer to PO.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby ROCKMAN » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 07:33:13

John - The point I'm making I that you keep saying "TOD said this...TOD said that...". TOD is a website...it don't say nuthin. LOL. But folks on TOD have said a lot of things...some of which you've pointed out. I've never seen any comments/theories/attitudes/opinions expressed on TOD that I haven't seen here. Thus if any of that turned TOD into "toast" why hasn't it done the same to PO.com? You seem to have issues with some of the commenters on TOD...
welcome to the club. LOL. But you have issues with some of the folks here...welcome to another club. LOL.

The only significant difference I've experienced with TOD and PO.com is that I haven't been banned here. Not yet anyway.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby John_A » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 08:59:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '
')If peak oil hysteria, fear, the meme, whatever, goes away tomorrow, there will still be issues of resource scarcity, including that of oil.


Ok. So what's those issues then?


Everything else of course. Pick anything which is non-renewable and I'm sure we can get both reasonable, and unreasonable fears started about it. Peak water is one of my favorites.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby John_A » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 09:02:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '
')
Well, we know that TOD is toast, therefore that part is true. And as far as JDs ideas going on, sure they will here. Here is a classic, and will be right for some time in the future yet

http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/200 ... -than.html


Readers should consider JB's comment found below the blog entry.


Sounds he knows better than to tilt against strawmen manufactured by the peak oil folks, and is tired of those who only know how to use strawmen to debate the issue.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby John_A » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 09:22:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', ' ')I've never seen any comments/theories/attitudes/opinions expressed on TOD that I haven't seen here.


Are you saying that the number of people holding a particularly bad idea gives it more validity?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rockman', '
')Thus if any of that turned TOD into "toast" why hasn't it done the same to PO.com?


Because they aren't the same. TOD set themselves up at the egghead set, you know some of those folks had PhD's! Remote sensing and computer stuff! Academics! The MSM bought in, worse TOD believed their own press, and then their collective ego basically couldn't take it when they were proven wrong...and it was only getting worse, year over year.

PO.com doesn't have that same sense of "gee we're all really smart even if we aren't oil folks, and this is a cool topic even if the egghead types haven't quite got it figured out so lets talk about it alot!" which is a completely different attitude than those with their snoots in the air as though their crap doesn't stink.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rockman', '
')You seem to have issues with some of the commenters on TOD...
welcome to the club. LOL. But you have issues with some of the folks here...welcome to another club. LOL.


I have issues with those who think they don't put their pants on one leg at a time, and don't have the self esteem to stand up and take their hit for getting it wrong, after having spent years casting stones at others who, it turns out, were less wrong than them. I guess my tolerance for cowardice is pretty low.

Call it a natural disdain for a false sense of certainty, anchored in the psyche of those who think that because they have some initials after their name but no experience on a topic, they should be thought of as an expert anyway.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rockman', '
')The only significant difference I've experienced with TOD and PO.com is that I haven't been banned here. Not yet anyway.


TOD has quite a reputation for banning. That is how you handle those pointing out that, regardless of the letters after your name, you don't get a free pass when you really screw the pooch.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby dsula » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 10:04:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '
')If peak oil hysteria, fear, the meme, whatever, goes away tomorrow, there will still be issues of resource scarcity, including that of oil.


Ok. So what's those issues then?


Everything else of course. Pick anything which is non-renewable and I'm sure we can get both reasonable, and unreasonable fears started about it. Peak water is one of my favorites.

I'm sorry. Can you be a little bit more specific? In the first post you say there is issues of resource scarcity. So what are those issues? Is water an issues? Or is your comment meant to be sarcastic?
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby John_A » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:07:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '
')If peak oil hysteria, fear, the meme, whatever, goes away tomorrow, there will still be issues of resource scarcity, including that of oil.


Ok. So what's those issues then?


Everything else of course. Pick anything which is non-renewable and I'm sure we can get both reasonable, and unreasonable fears started about it. Peak water is one of my favorites.

I'm sorry. Can you be a little bit more specific? In the first post you say there is issues of resource scarcity. So what are those issues? Is water an issues? Or is your comment meant to be sarcastic?


I'm sorry, I don't understand your question? First you ask me what issues, and when I mention all those not already covered, and provide a specific example, you seem to become confused and ask more questions which were all answered the first time. Is your question meant to be sarcastic?
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby dsula » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 11:50:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '
')I'm sorry, I don't understand your question? First you ask me what issues, and when I mention all those not already covered, and provide a specific example, you seem to become confused and ask more questions which were all answered the first time. Is your question meant to be sarcastic?

You're loosing me here, I'm afraid.

But let me try again. And this is not a sarcastic question and I hope I get a real answer.
And yes, you're correct, I'm confused about your answers. On several occasion on this forum you argue that higher prices make more oil available in such quantities (given the price is right) that BAU can continue for a long long time. I assume you hold this point of view for everything non-renewable, and maybe also semi-renewable (fish, tree, etc.).

Yet on occasion you also mention that resource scarcity is in fact a problem that must be taken seriously and cannot be ignored.

This is my confusion. What is it now? A problem? Or not? And what kind of problem is it? And how should it be dealt with?

Sometimes I wonder what all those past civilizations did wrong? Shouldn't economics saved the Easter Islanders? Why did high wood prices not create more trees?
Shouldn't technology marched right along and saved the Romans? Why didn't necessity and scarcity make them invent nuclear power?
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby John_A » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 13:59:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '
')I'm sorry, I don't understand your question? First you ask me what issues, and when I mention all those not already covered, and provide a specific example, you seem to become confused and ask more questions which were all answered the first time. Is your question meant to be sarcastic?

You're loosing me here, I'm afraid.


Yes, you are loosing me as well. I think it is best we stop while we are ahead. Unless we have something to say about JD coming back just in time to yuck it up over TOD bailing out of the game.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby dsula » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 14:13:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '
')I'm sorry, I don't understand your question? First you ask me what issues, and when I mention all those not already covered, and provide a specific example, you seem to become confused and ask more questions which were all answered the first time. Is your question meant to be sarcastic?

You're loosing me here, I'm afraid.


Yes, you are loosing me as well. I think it is best we stop while we are ahead. Unless we have something to say about JD coming back just in time to yuck it up over TOD bailing out of the game.

Thank you. My picture about you gets clearer with your every answer :-D
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby John_A » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 15:07:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '
')Thank you. My picture about you gets clearer with your every answer :-D


No, thank you! I'm glad this is all now clear.

[smilie=3some.gif]
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby ROCKMAN » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 16:01:48

John - "Are you saying that the number of people holding a particularly bad idea gives it more validity?" No...I'm saying I see the same bad and good ideas here as I saw at TOD. I see the same humility and inflated ego here as I saw at TOD. There are folks here I can't wait to read when I see their posts. And a few I automatically skip. Just the same at TOD. In truth besides not being banned the only big difference I see between the two sites is that I don't make nearly as many references to Blue Bell ice cream here as I did at TOD. LOL.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby TheDude » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 19:10:55

ralfy - thanks for the link page, very handy.

pstarr - Image

In his defense JD posted about really obvious things like how larger geographic regions will by definition peak at a slower rate than smaller ones, which was news to fast crasher types. Frankly a lot of the latter just have an emotional investment in the world going to hell as soon as possible, which isn't exactly what you'd call rational thinking.

Being a moderate in these matters I'll be more than upfront in acknowledging that the world is going to hell in various ways though. A space elevator isn't going to change that. Oh great, now we have dirt cheap iron ore and we're making a complete mess out of low Earth orbit. Shiny!

JD also posted about the very interesting IEA document Saving Oil in a Hurry which is full of good advice on how societies can deal with peak oil in a rational manner, so we can come through this all in fine shape. Being a moderate again I'm not really expecting societies to deal with declining oil production and real fuel shortages in anything even close to the rational, more like freaking the absolute fuck out. 2008 basically confirmed my suspicions that Americans at least are ready to embrace whatever pols and the media tell them is the best band-aid for pain at the pump, whether it's stringing up speculators or drilling the living shit out of the planet to find some more black stuff.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby John_A » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 21:56:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'J')ohn - "Are you saying that the number of people holding a particularly bad idea gives it more validity?" No...I'm saying I see the same bad and good ideas here as I saw at TOD.


Well, I have to agree with that. The number of times you have tried to explain EROEI to people, only to have them continue to grind on about how oil and gas production measured that way is the way to go, it always seems that folks from all sorts of websites buy into that one without rooting you out and getting a decent take on the matter first.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rockman', '
')In truth besides not being banned the only big difference I see between the two sites is that I don't make nearly as many references to Blue Bell ice cream here as I did at TOD. LOL.


Is Blue Bell ice cream a good reference, or a bad one? 8O
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby dashster » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 22:07:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'L')ots of reports linked here:

https://sites.google.com/site/peakoilreports/

So much for "fleeing."

TS prefers reports and not blogs, but what does he present? A blog. :lol:


Kind of blows his cover, doesn't it.
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby ralfy » Wed 21 Aug 2013, 23:39:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', '
')
Sounds he knows better than to tilt against strawmen manufactured by the peak oil folks, and is tired of those who only know how to use strawmen to debate the issue.


Lower oil consumption to get the hotdogs from 7-11, but the same hotdogs are delivered to 7-11 long distance.

So much for strawmen. :lol:
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Re: JD comes BACK!!!

Postby John_A » Thu 22 Aug 2013, 13:30:09

Another JD classic!

Euan apparently took quite a bit longer, but there are others who apparently learned much faster.

http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/200 ... oomer.html
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