[Rod_Cloutier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')31 mpg here. 300HP V6 to boot. Cars are getting more efficient, which is good, but I want those European turbo-diesels NOW.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', ' ')I won't be driving an ox cart to get food from the local farm- I'd more likely starve first.

[vtsnowedin]

Long before the US gets to rickshaws and ox carts there will be the transformation of the suburbs. First to go will be the single occupant long distance auto commuter and last to go will be whole suburbs that are too far out and or can't be serviced by rail. These may well be dozed flat and returned to farmland or forest. In between there will be four person car pools which effectively convert a 30 mpg car into one that gets 120 mpg, bus routes that are utilized and profitable, and expanded and profitable commuter rail. Along with that there will be rezoning away from single use zones to allow some jobs to move out to the suburbs and allow their employees to walk to work and only shipping raw materials and finished product to and from the city.
I see no reason why the US can't cut consumption down to levels below North American production and still have a viable prosperous economy. The auto, air travel, and housing industries will get totally revamped of course but there will be profit opportunities in each of these for those that can see the trend.

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', ' ')I won't be driving an ox cart to get food from the local farm- I'd more likely starve first.

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '.')..last to go will be whole suburbs that are too far out and or can't be serviced by rail. These may well be dozed flat and returned to farmland or forest.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '.')..last to go will be whole suburbs that are too far out and or can't be serviced by rail. These may well be dozed flat and returned to farmland or forest.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'L')ong before the US gets to rickshaws and ox carts there will be the transformation of the suburbs.

[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')
I see no reason why the US can't cut consumption down to levels below North American production and still have a viable prosperous economy. The auto, air travel, and housing industries will get totally revamped of course but there will be profit opportunities in each of these for those that can see the trend.

[ROCKMAN]

If there is no reason then logic follows the American people must generally be satisfied with the situation. If they are satisfied then there's no reason to change. And if they aren't satisfied then logic says there must be a reason the situation can't change easily

[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'I')f there is no reason then logic follows the American people must generally be satisfied with the situation. If they are satisfied then there's no reason to change. And if they aren't satisfied then logic says there must be a reason the situation can't change easily

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '.')..last to go will be whole suburbs that are too far out and or can't be serviced by rail. These may well be dozed flat and returned to farmland or forest.

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'I') do have a mountain bike, just in case, but can't say as I enjoy bicycling, definitely prefer walking.

[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', ' ')But last I checked, Detroit isn't an exurb and gasoline is still cheap and plentiful.

[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'I') do have a mountain bike, just in case, but can't say as I enjoy bicycling, definitely prefer walking.

[ralfy]

I think it refers to rate of flow vs. increasing demand, and the latter may be influenced by a growing global middle class.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '
')In a survival situation, the people who expend least energy to do their travel will be better off - they will be less tired and they will use less food.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'W')ithout fossil fuels, my transport would most likely be a sailboat or rowboat. Much more energy efficient than land travel and it would get me to wherever I needed to be.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'n')b2.. forgot you were in the PNW... that does change the math because the land routes are so catastrophically bad... for most though, I don't think it works out so well as a general case.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', 'P')eak oil does not relate to survival situations. It relates to coping and adapting with using less over crude oil over time. If the IEA is to be believed, over the course of a century and quite a few more trillions of barrels to be utilized.

[ROCKMAN]

It seems the discussion about collapse/decline/Mad Max/survival methods/etc ultimately boils down to scale. For decades folks have died in the US from either the cold or heat because they couldn’t afford the energy. Tiny numbers compared to the US population. Across the globe…bigger numbers. And then there have been a great many more folks in this country who have lived thru some rather uncomfortable times due to high energy costs. And then there have been some folks who have lost jobs due to higher oil prices but not many…most folks are still working. And energy costs have taken a bigger chunk of net incomes. Devastating for some but not for the great majority.

Many here have reduced their energy footprint which is great…for them. But does little to nothing for the economy as a whole IMHO. We’re still a small % of the global population that uses a big chunk of global energy. We have fat to cut for sure but one man’s fat is another’s livelihood. I suppose it’s a spin on the definition of recession (when your neighbor loses his job) and a depression (when you lose your job). So a PO setback is when you decide to not by that V8 4X4 p/u because gasoline has gotten so expensive. And a PO collapse is when you lose your job, the kids drop out of college and you can’t afford to run the heater/AC in your home. And a PO bonanza when you’re a 62 yo petroleum geologist.

It seems like the difference in various views of the PO future is what we expect for ourselves personally. After that I suppose it boils down to a numbers game: how many slide how far down the economic pyramid. Ignoring those few who have been greatly impacted by PO then things aren’t so bad. As long as you’re not one of “them”.