[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
') ...you loose the argument ..

[misterno]

In Houston we have 3 NG stations but their prices are all same $2.49

My question is what is the MPG equivelant of NG vehicle? In other words how much MMBTU do I need to go say 1 mile or 100 miles with say Honda Civic NG?

[Plantagenet]

"Compression in the Civic GX is 12.5:1, higher than that of most US pump gasoline-powered automobiles. The significantly higher compression ratio is usable without detonation due to the 130-octane natural gas that powers the car. Acceleration of the 2012 Civic Natural Gas is less than that of the comparable 4-door 2012 LX model due to both lower power (110 hp vs. 140 hp) and heavier weight (2848 lbs vs 2705 lbs).[18][19] Zero-to-sixty times have been clocked at 12.6 seconds.[20]
The CNG cylinder (fuel tank) is carried in the trunk of the car and holds 8.0 GGE (Gasoline Gallon Equivalent) at 3600 psi.[18]
Range on a full 3600 psi fill is variable, depending on driving conditions and driving technique. While Honda claims an estimated 225–250 miles from a full CNG tank charge,[10] independent tests have found a lower ranges, at 180–200 miles[21] and "just over 200 miles" (about 300km).[22] For 2012 the EPA fuel economy increases with range increased to 225 ~ 250 miles. The EPA rates the 2009 Honda Civic GX at 24 equivalent MPG city and 36 equivalent MPG highway.[23] Independent tests with mixed driving usage found rates of "nearly 32"[24] and 26.8[22] equivalent MPG. The estimated fuel cost for this vehicle to drive 25 miles for a combination of city and highway driving is $1.47 using CNG.[23] The GX qualifies for HOV Lane access in California, Arizona, Utah, and other states.[25] ---Honda CNG Civic specs from Wikipedia


Honda Civic GX

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', ' ')NG will never amount to a hill of methane beans. Sorry to bring the bad news.

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')
Now can we please return to the topic of "natural gas vehicles" and whether or not the low price of natural gas reflects its abundance?


Estimates of global natural gas reserves

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', ' ')
Wow. So Obama still wants a federal tax credit of $7500 for the VOLT---which is selling so badly GM has stopped production---- but none for CNG cars where production is expanding now at Honda, GM and Chrysler??

Jeez----he's even stupider than I thought!

[Plantagenet]

dup post

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JRP3', ' ')poland-may-curb-shale-gas-euphoria-....A new report coming out Wednesday is expected to put the country's likely shale gas reserves at much less than initially thought.

[Lore]

We really don't know for sure how much and at what cost. It has been so far, pure happy talk by the energy industry. Of course, all this has been mentioned many times here at PO.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here are a few bumps on the optimistic roadmap being drawn for natural gas, though. A New York Times investigative piece last year, for example, quotes industry insiders who believe the current shale gas fever is “inherently unprofitable,” a “giant Ponzi scheme” that “reminds you of dot-coms.

There are also the questionable impacts of hydrofracturing, a chemical- and water-intensive process for releasing natural gas from underground rock formations that opponents have linked to poisoned wellwater supplies and flammable streams of gas emerging from kitchen faucets.

And then there’s the nature of the natural gas deposits themselves. While shale formations might hold plenty of gas, wells dug to extract that gas deplete quickly, with production dropping by as much as 60 to 90 percent from peak in the first year alone.

In one of its three energy-outlook scenarios, the IEA expects global demand for natural gas to hit 4.75 trillion cubic meters by 2035 — up 55 percent over 2009 levels of 3.1 trillion cubic meters. That’s always been a tricky aspect of the IEA’s outlooks, though: the agency typically focuses on demand rather than on production … and “it’s production that matters,” as researchers James W. Murray and David King recently pointed out in a commentary in the journal Nature.
http://www.greenbang.com/how-much-natur ... 21336.html

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')e really don't know for sure how much and at what cost. It has been so far, pure happy talk by the energy industry.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', ']')Neither fracting nor horizontal wells are new technologies

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '[')img]http://fracfocus.org/sites/default/files/first-hydraulic-fracturiing.jpg[/img]

you can make a liar out of me....

[Lore]

Which is why NG will keep pace with prices of other fuels.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Natural gas drilling slows as prices drop
Published: February 12, 2012

As natural gas prices continue to drop, the recent nationwide boom in drilling is slowing. Drillers don't make money if prices go too low.

"It is safe to say that there will be fewer natural gas wells drilled in 2012," said Kathryn Klaber, president of the Marcellus Shale Coalition, an industry group based in Pennsylvania.

In recent weeks, several companies have announced plans to cut gas production around the nation.

When the shale drilling boom was starting in 2008 the average price for a unit of gas was about $8. Two years ago it was down to $5.50, and now it's dropped to about $2.50. The shale gas formations became productive more rapidly than expected, as thousands of new wells have been drilled nationwide.

Industry reports note that the national count of active new gas drilling rigs fell to 775 in early February, down from about 1,500 in 2008.

Yet Klaber said the low prices create opportunities for more use of the product. Some drilling companies are focusing more on the so-called "wet gas," which sells for a higher price because it can be transformed by refineries into consumer products such as plastics and fertilizer.
http://www.newsday.com/business/natural ... -1.3524421

[Wootan]

This is the great opportunity for NG:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen the shale drilling boom was starting in 2008 the average price for a unit of gas was about $8. Two years ago it was down to $5.50, and now it's dropped to about $2.50. The shale gas formations became productive more rapidly than expected, as thousands of new wells have been drilled nationwide.