[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')hat's a whole other thread, but.. problem here is conservatives feel the same as you do that benefits are out of control. Problem there is how can a party be anti-abortion but also anti-services for poor children -- it's illogical, you can't force poor women to have the baby and THEN shame her anyway for then using WIC for formula and food stamps. Pick one, either support a poor woman's right to abort or support the child if she has it.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '[')b]I'd be more concerned about giving M.D.'s that sort of gatekeeper authority; between the ones that don't like guns, and those that will sign anything for cash; it sounds like a system designed to insure that evil, malevolent crazies get guns, and boring middle class people get denied.

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')What you're saying is you can't trust our doctors -- because we have for-profit healthcare, it's why we have pill mills and even your friendly family doc has Big Pharma reps wining and dining him (bribes).

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')What you're saying is you can't trust our doctors -- because we have for-profit healthcare, it's why we have pill mills and even your friendly family doc has Big Pharma reps wining and dining him (bribes).

[EnergyUnlimited]

Does it make any sense in the age of Internet where any drug can be bought out of prescription system?
Those not willing to attend counselling will do just that.

Seems like this is an attempt to create more turnover for sex therapists.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '[') The state senator is correct, Viagra has risks.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
') Economically, it would probably be cheaper to society if all abortions were funded 100% by the government. We could even add a cash incentive if they elected to be sterilized at the same time.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')How it should be Roy.. it should be like the old days.. a working class job should pay enough to support the worker without government having to do these outright wealth transfers.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'W')hat if, unlike in those old days, workers are not able to produce enough to justify wages like that? You know, the Chinese, the robots, the overgrown hubris of every blue and white collar ...What then?

[SeaGypsy]

6, there is no such thing as a natural entitlement. Break the word down, it's about a contract, between the entitled and the entitler. The people most outside 'entitlement' systems (ie. those with no connection at all to government) are the most marginalized in the world. Governments are one of those paradoxical constructs, responsible for great benefit to Citizens (another term of Contract), sometimes responsible for great harm, genocide. The whole Government is Bad argument is futile bunkum. The problem is not the government, it is efficiency. Resource efficiency if you want to get technical. $10 bucks an hour is still looked at as 3 steps from heaven by 90% of the world's population. $5 a gallon is a faint memory in many places. Mopeds are sexy. Sharing housing is groovy, home made Chinese is healthy and cheap. Public transport is full of eye candy. Fact is the best thing for America would be a big fat attitude adjustment we all know is impossible, sadly.

[SeaGypsy]

Another point is, taking the automation argument to it's end (all meaningful work is now done by machine) those owning the machines will have to invent some pretend productivity and maintain some form of token system, else who do they sell to? In this case who best own the machine?

Back on topic, one conservative value I like is freedom of contract. I know unions hate it and it can disenfranchise workers in a tight economy with high unemployment. However I have taken this route and been able to develop an amazing mix of careers and hourly rates I am more than happy with, by free contracting with agencies. I also have no problem with people being offered some kind of enticement to safe sterilization. Why not? I think why not is less to do with religious thinking, more the whole growth based fundamentals of our current economic model. Even a total parasite of a human being, of no capability to ever produce anything useful directly, still creates 'productive work' indirectly for a mass of people which often amounts to 400% of the economic activity of a 'normal worker'. Do we really need to encourage these people to breed? Probably better not.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '6'), there is no such thing as a natural entitlement. Break the word down, it's about a contract, between the entitled and the entitler.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '6'), there is no such thing as a natural entitlement. Break the word down, it's about a contract, between the entitled and the entitler.

[radon]

Someone has observed recently here that 1 billionaire consumes less than 1 thousand millionaires. It would also be fair to say that 1 person on welfare (foodstamps) consumes less than 1 employee. So the drive to income polarisation may be a natural adjustment mechanism as the resources are becoming scarcer.

An alternative route is to equalise the resource take more or less uniformly over the population - this is a type of socialism. Everyone would get more than a foodstamper but less than an employee - because the total available resource base shrinks. In order for this system to progress, however, people have to be motivated by things other than greed and fear. The question is whether it is possible.

[SeaGypsy]

I think where it's headed is the system will have to be socialized to the extent that roof, rations, fundamental health care, children's education and basic skills courses for retraining adults are basically mandatory in the long run on the downslide to avoid social catastrophe. Besides this 'free' enterprise is mandatory to maintain a tax base. In reality the social, enterprise and resource economies all intertwine, including the black threads. Remove any thread the yarn falls apart.

I can see the day when welfare will exist but with no cash component, whether a chipped population or eye scanned (as my government in Australia now does when we renew our driving licenses). To have any economic freedom will require work or trade. People will work for things they like but can't get on restricted spending. The guv here has done a halfhearted 50/50 cash and restricted card system for the most indigenous of our states (not actually a state) the Northern Territory. Because it's 50/50 it doesn't work. Plus they let people buy fuel with it, to drive along bus routes, pay for tyres etc. Nope. Beer, gas, smokes, dope, smoked salmon from Alaska etc. are cash money items only.

They are still paying anyone capable of popping out a child $5k here.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'W')hat if, unlike in those old days, workers are not able to produce enough to justify wages like that? You know, the Chinese, the robots, the overgrown hubris of every blue and white collar ...What then?

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') think where it's headed is the system will have to be socialized to the extent that roof, rations, fundamental health care, children's education and basic skills courses for retraining adults are basically mandatory in the long run on the downslide to avoid social catastrophe.

[vaseline2008]

Speaking of men and their penises, do you guys know that in California we still have Sodomy Laws?

California Penal Code Section 286
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '(')a) Sodomy is sexual conduct consisting of contact between the
penis of one person and the anus of another person. Any sexual
penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the crime of
sodomy.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') think where it's headed is the system will have to be socialized to the extent that roof, rations, fundamental health care, children's education and basic skills courses for retraining adults are basically mandatory in the long run on the downslide to avoid social catastrophe.