[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('radon', 'S')omeone has observed recently here that 1 billionaire consumes less than 1 thousand millionaires. It would also be fair to say that 1 person on welfare (foodstamps) consumes less than 1 employee. So the drive to income polarisation may be a natural adjustment mechanism as the resources are becoming scarcer.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vaseline2008', 'S')peaking of men and their penises, do you guys know that in California we still have Sodomy Laws?

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '2'). Re-criminalize adultery. This will help protect the unborn and keep families together, that's what we're all about right? Aren't these our judeo-Christian values?

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vaseline2008', 'S')peaking of men and their penises, do you guys know that in California we still have Sodomy Laws?

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'I') like abortion, it brings the crime rate down. An unwanted child is probably going to get into trouble. Besides, (except in the case of rape), if a person is so stupid they get pregnant by accident, then maybe we do not want that gene pool in the population.

Economically, it would probably be cheaper to society if all abortions were funded 100% by the government. We could even add a cash incentive if they elected to be sterilized at the same time.

I also agree with Tananda. Why the hell do we give the government the authority to mess with our personal lives?

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'W')ell as much as I like a one child policy, or even a lottery, (with the ability to transfer or sell your right if you won), that implies force. I prefer education and incentives instead.

[Loki]

There’s no need for “one child” or breeding licenses or forced abortion or any other authoritarian population control measures in the US. Our population growth is driven entirely by immigration---sans mass immigration our population would be stable. Changing immigration policy requires a simple act of Congress, an act that would be supported by most Americans and result in no violation of basic civil liberties.

On a more modest note, however, I would certainly support the elimination of tax deductions related to child dependents. I see no good reason for the government to subsidize people’s personal relationship choices (that goes for government involvement with marriage as well).

As for the OP, when feminist activists acknowledge that reproductive rights also extend to humans with Y chromosomes, I’ll be all ears. The toxic sexism of the feminist movement makes it hard for me to take their arguments seriously.

[Kristen]

It is a bit of irony that all of these religious figures haven't had more scrutiny regarding pills that help a man get a hard on so he can have sex. By paying for Viagra you are reframing from abstinence (grinning)!

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'A')nother point is, taking the automation argument to it's end (all meaningful work is now done by machine) those owning the machines will have to invent some pretend productivity and maintain some form of token system, else who do they sell to? In this case who best own the machine?

Back on topic, one conservative value I like is freedom of contract. I know unions hate it and it can disenfranchise workers in a tight economy with high unemployment. However I have taken this route and been able to develop an amazing mix of careers and hourly rates I am more than happy with, by free contracting with agencies. I also have no problem with people being offered some kind of enticement to safe sterilization. Why not? I think why not is less to do with religious thinking, more the whole growth based fundamentals of our current economic model. Even a total parasite of a human being, of no capability to ever produce anything useful directly, still creates 'productive work' indirectly for a mass of people which often amounts to 400% of the economic activity of a 'normal worker'. Do we really need to encourage these people to breed? Probably better not.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', ' ')In the long run your assertion is correct, but it's a very long way down the track from today. You underestimate industrialism's hold on our ways of life and the sacrifices people and societies will make to retain a hold on it's rewards.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'U')nworking fantasy world,
Yeah?

[EnergyUnlimited]

Problem with robots is that they are suitable only in high output manufacturing setup (mass production).
It does not make sense to reprogram them or modify construction for short series jobs.
So human hand work will always be needed, also to produce and maintain robots. They will also need programming.

The other problem is that due to increasing cost of raw materials majority of mass produced consumer goods will no longer be affordable for most and that would undermine robotic manufacturing.
That will still hold true, even if "wages" for robots go to zero and they never will.
You have to make and maintain robot like any other machine and here are said "wages".
Also in some Asian countries manual labour is exceedingly cheap and robots cannot really compete.

So we are talking about robot driven dreams.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'Y')ou are using terms which are fundamentally socialist.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'P')roblem with robots is that they are suitable only in high output manufacturing setup (mass production).
It does not make sense to reprogram them or modify construction for short series jobs.
So human hand work will always be needed, also to produce and maintain robots.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')That's right now. I'm talking about new robots, and eventually the singularity...
...
You won't believe until it happens, I get that. Don't know how old you are.. you remember before the Internet? Did you see that coming?

[radon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')It takes far fewer human workers to maintain automation than the number of jobs the automation replaced. I know I'm making the luddite arugment, it's always been false in the past but what I'm saying is we're finally approaching the extreme edge of efficiency and automation to where there is now a permanent jobs deficit that will get bigger -- *unless* government employs more or distributes wealth, ergo socialism.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('radon', 'T')his is what Marx predicted. However, he viewed it as glass half-full rather than half-empty: he maintained that the development of the means of production will free up people from exploitation and enable them to pursue of sorts of creative endeavors that they aspire to - instead of framing this historical process in terms of the "permanent jobs deficit" (which is the same, in substance). Money will become redundant. He called this arrangement "communism". The swear word.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Wasn't too many years ago I could call a customer service number and at least talk to an Indian. Now software voice recognition software is pretty could. I just notice these things. Used to be you had to yell in the phone and talk slowly and still the darn computer wouldn't recognize it, past few years it seems to be really good now though I say "yes," "no," "billing," sometimes the computer just asks what your question is and you speak naturally and surprise the computer understands the full sentence then asks more detailed questions to complete your transaction. If anyone isn't noticing these things getting more advanced, they're not paying attention.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '[')b]All the driving factors in business are for eliminating jobs, not creating more jobs.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')he full singularity of AI intelligence / sentience means software will be creative -- then that's the big event, there goes all human labor. This is where I'd disagree with Marx -- humans will face AI competition even in creativity. Even assuming the only jobs are creative jobs, and until AI can do those, not everyone is naturally artistic that's a minority of people. If we want a good, decent, safe society we'll have to figure out how to respond to a world without enough jobs. Like it or not that means some kind of communism, if for no other reason than consumer capitalism will implode after they've destroyed too many of their own customers' jobs.