[seahorse3]

People always tell the poor tongued get up and move, even out of the country. Unfortunately either takes money the poor don't have. If one was to move out of the country they need money for them and their family to get a passport that they can't afford, then money for the gas or airfare to move that they most likely don't have, then money for a security deposit to rent somewhere else that they don't have, etc. The only reason they are living in Flint Michigan is that's the only place they can afford, or maybe some other cesspool third world country like Mexico or Africa but they can't afford to get there and then don't even soeakthe language of their fellow poor when they get there. So telling the poor to move is not very helpful. Maybe this problem of growing poverty in the US is better handled by assessing the problem in the areas where it exists on multiple fronts like razing vacant buildings, replanting, teaching the poor to grow food even in their areas, votech training to physically rebuild their areas etc just like we do in 3d world countries. If we don't address the reasons for growing poverty, which are many, and if we simply advocate the move, be careful that you get what you pray for. You could create a "locust plague" ska zombie horde that comes for you

[Revi]

The poor are getting shafted. They will soon lose heating oil assistance completely and are barely making it now, while the rest of the "economy" is kept alive by shutting off certain segments of the population. The next compartments to get shut off are those that contain the middle class. That's when the trouble really starts, because as long as it's just the poor getting the short end of the stick they won't revolt, but as soon as the petite bourgeois are cut out of the economy they tend to get really uppity.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', '1')%? Hardly!

Virtually everyone I know has a job or their business is doing OK.
That would apply to around 95% of the people around me. I guess I'm part of the 95%.

Still I'm not blind to the fact that many parts of the U.S. aren't doing so well and for them I hope things get better soon.

[ObiWan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse3', 'I') still refer back to several essays written by a journalist at the Atlantic. His name is Kaplan. We used to have some links to the articles he wrote in the 90s, back in the good old days after the Soviet Union fell, the dollar was on the rise, no one could see anything but blue sky. His articles all questioned whether the political and economic system as we knew it was sustainable and came to the conclusion it wasn't. In particular, I remember two titled "The Coming Anarchy" and "Was Democracy a Moment." In retrospect, those thoughts of Kaplan were very prescient for his time to be able to see rising desparity between poor and what we now call the 1%, increasing poverty, etc. In one of the essays he opined that what we saw happening in Africa would not be limited to Africa etc. Those essays are worth reading.

[Revi]

I think there are possibilities still in our culture, but only for those who disconnect from the dominant culture and its insanity. You have to become mildly Amish to survive nowadays. Don't buy a new vehicle, don't buy into what everyone else is doing. The dominant culture is headed towards extinction.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'T')hat's when the trouble really starts, because as long as it's just the poor getting the short end of the stick they won't revolt, but as soon as the petite bourgeois are cut out of the economy they tend to get really uppity.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse3', 'P')eople always tell the poor tongued get up and move, even out of the country. Unfortunately either takes money the poor don't have. If one was to move out of the country they need money for them and their family to get a passport that they can't afford, then money for the gas or airfare to move that they most likely don't have, then money for a security deposit to rent somewhere else that they don't have, etc. The only reason they are living in Flint Michigan is that's the only place they can afford, or maybe some other cesspool third world country like Mexico or Africa but they can't afford to get there and then don't even soeakthe language of their fellow poor when they get there. So telling the poor to move is not very helpful. Maybe this problem of growing poverty in the US is better handled by assessing the problem in the areas where it exists on multiple fronts like razing vacant buildings, replanting, teaching the poor to grow food even in their areas, votech training to physically rebuild their areas etc just like we do in 3d world countries. If we don't address the reasons for growing poverty, which are many, and if we simply advocate the move, be careful that you get what you pray for. You could create a "locust plague" ska zombie horde that comes for you

[nocar]

Pretorian wrote
'From the little that I know , most of Flynters are elderly retirees. Minimal SS income pays for nothing less than a fancy lifestyle in 2/3rds of the world. That is at least 120 countries, plenty to choose from.

Are you sure retiree Americans will be welcome in those countries?

[ritter]

@AgentR11: well stated.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'T')hat's when the trouble really starts, because as long as it's just the poor getting the short end of the stick they won't revolt, but as soon as the petite bourgeois are cut out of the economy they tend to get really uppity.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nocar', 'P')retorian wrote
'From the little that I know , most of Flynters are elderly retirees. Minimal SS income pays for nothing less than a fancy lifestyle in 2/3rds of the world. That is at least 120 countries, plenty to choose from.

Are you sure retiree Americans will be welcome in those countries?

[seahorse3]

Pretorian, I talk and counsel with poor people everyday. If you believe the poor have the extra $100+ for a passport, airfare or even the gas for a trip out of state you live in ignorance. Those statistics being rattled off about the number of poor Americans drasticsllynrisingnin the US and the number of people on food stamps are real people, not just numbers. I was talked to a a single woman who cried bc her $100 child support check was deposited by the child support office a day late due to some technical error. She time her $10 gas purchase to believing it was being deposited as usual. This caused her acct to go into overdraft, a $35 overdraft fee she could not afford. She also had to pay a $35 ISF to the gas station that she couldn't afford. So this $100 she budgeted for her nessecities for gas and food just wasn't there. There are countless people who cannot afford to simply fill up their tank and go and couldn't possibly afford airfare to go where? Do what? And get a place to live with what money?

[ObiWan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse3', 'P')retorian, I talk and counsel with poor people everyday. If you believe the poor have the extra $100+ for a passport, airfare or even the gas for a trip out of state you live in ignorance. Those statistics being rattled off about the number of poor Americans drasticsllynrisingnin the US and the number of people on food stamps are real people, not just numbers. I was talked to a a single woman who cried bc her $100 child support check was deposited by the child support office a day late due to some technical error. She time her $10 gas purchase to believing it was being deposited as usual. This caused her acct to go into overdraft, a $35 overdraft fee she could not afford. She also had to pay a $35 ISF to the gas station that she couldn't afford. So this $100 she budgeted for her nessecities for gas and food just wasn't there. There are countless people who cannot afford to simply fill up their tank and go and couldn't possibly afford airfare to go where? Do what? And get a place to live with what money?

[vision-master]

The child could be Jesus.

You will answer to your transgressions.

When a child is born

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hat is it you are afraid of?

[seahorse3]

[url][/url]Obi there's a lot wrong with the picture of someone who doesn't have a $100 but has a child. First, you imply the mother is at fault. Let's assume that is true. Let's assume she is a crack head, but what about the child? Do we abandon the child? Is it moral for society to abandon a child who is not to blame? Certainly not if you are Christian, Muslim or human it isn't. It's certainly not moral for a society to abandon a child when it spends trillions on wars but can't take care of children? There are too many reasons to invest in children, all reasons for the betterment of society, even Hitler realized that.

Now if this all gets down to personal responsibilty in life then tell me why we have corporations? A corporation is set up to avoid personal responsibility- that is it's sole purpose. So when America, when the world's "capitalist" are ready to embrace personal responsibility and abadon the fiction of a corporation which is the antithesis of personal responsibility, then we can disregard socialism. Socialism is mere pain medicine for the pain inflicted by the inhumane acts of these souless creatures we call corporations

[seahorse3]

And please don't overlook the welfare entrenched for everyone, not just the poor, though it's not called that. Take for example tax deductions for home mortgage interest payments just to name one, this is social welfare. Or allowing any pass through of wealth upon death, this money was not earned by those who inherit. Did that common drunk Alice Walton ever do anything to inherit the billions left to her by her daddy? How is that capitalism? It's simple cronyism, not capitalism. For capitalism to ever work, for there to be any hope that with hard work one can rise above the circumstance into which they were born, we have to, as a society invest in our children or we will turn our country over to a landed elite if drunks like Alice walton, and everything you think is great about America will be left to collect dust in some forgotten history book

[xerces]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'T')hat's when the trouble really starts, because as long as it's just the poor getting the short end of the stick they won't revolt, but as soon as the petite bourgeois are cut out of the economy they tend to get really uppity.

[ObiWan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'T')he child could be Jesus.

[ObiWan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse3', '[')url][/url]Obi there's a lot wrong with the picture of someone who doesn't have a $100 but has a child. First, you imply the mother is at fault. Let's assume that is true. Let's assume she is a crack head, but what about the child? Do we abandon the child?