[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', '
')
I agree, as a software engineer there is much more satisfaction working on what I call 'infrastructure' then consumer-stuff.

[jdmartin]

Mostly I just want to say that this has been a great thread - one of the best I've seen on PO.com in a long, long time. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading the responses, well-reasoned or not. I believe that we should spend far more time in self-reflection than we do, and this thread has caused a lot of it (especially for me!).

I will probably have something to add in a day or so, just need to take some time to digest what's already been written. Now where's that thumbs up emoticon?

[Newfie]

So I was thinking about this and came up with this hypothetical 'fix' to the system. Not a complete fix but something that could be done.

Consider this.

1. Take all unemployment funds and put them into SS.
2. Once you become eligible for SS then you get a bucket of 99 weeks of unemployment that you can take anytime in your working life. But that is it, 99 weeks max.
3. Once you get to 60 you can withdraw any unused unemployment, up to the full 99 weeks if you have not used any in your life.
4. Once you get to 62 you MUST retire from the system. You can still work, just not get paid.

Yeah, I know it ain't perfect and the numbers probably don't align, but it's a start and probably pretty close to budget neutral.

Even tough I still think we work way too much I thought I'd try to come up with something as a start in the right direction.

[jdmartin]

I like your ideas, Newfie.

It's inevitable that as production gets more efficient, and people live longer, we are either going to accept massive unemployment for the youth or the elderly. It makes more sense to me to put the youth to work, since their physiology is such that they're in better condition for it, and utilize the elderly as a base of knowledge such to perpetuate things. So I like your idea of no pay past 62, or whatever the age is. If there is/was a good strong pension system - SS, private pensions, whatever - then there would be less pressure for the old to toil for wages, and instead maybe we could use them in all kinds of volunteer situations for things that need to be done but lack a profit motive for doing them.

At any rate, at least you've got some ideas. Mostly there's nothing else out there in the wasteland.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'S')o I was thinking about this and came up with this hypothetical 'fix' to the system. Not a complete fix but something that could be done.

Consider this.

1. Take all unemployment funds and put them into SS.
2. Once you become eligible for SS then you get a bucket of 99 weeks of unemployment that you can take anytime in your working life. But that is it, 99 weeks max.
3. Once you get to 60 you can withdraw any unused unemployment, up to the full 99 weeks if you have not used any in your life.
4. Once you get to 62 you MUST retire from the system. You can still work, just not get paid.

Yeah, I know it ain't perfect and the numbers probably don't align, but it's a start and probably pretty close to budget neutral.

Even tough I still think we work way too much I thought I'd try to come up with something as a start in the right direction.

[Newfie]

Cog,

Please slow down and reread what I wrote. I'm surely NOT promoting any additional government program, in fact I think it would be significantly less.

Not that I think anything sensible has a chance of happening, I guess I'm just trying to point out something that WOULD be sensible to show that something could be done.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'C')og,

Please slow down and reread what I wrote. I'm surely NOT promoting any additional government program, in fact I think it would be significantly less.

Not that I think anything sensible has a chance of happening, I guess I'm just trying to point out something that WOULD be sensible to show that something could be done.

[Newfie]

Cog,

Really your tone is not called for.

You seem quite angry, are you OK?

[Cog]

You are the one who wants to prevent people working when they reach some magical age that you designate as being worthless. You really need to get an education pal on how things are going to develop in the future. From what I have read so far, you have some idea of a socialist utopia where we work minimal hours and do poetry and painting in our free time.

The future is going to be grim and brutal and you better get your head screwed on right, if not for yourself, then for your family.

[prajeshbhat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou are the one who wants to prevent people working when they reach some magical age that you designate as being worthless.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '4'). Once you get to 62 you MUST retire from the system. You can still work, just not get paid.

[Newfie]

I have never felt so misunderstood by so many.

As to my little proposal, all I can say is WOW!!! I could not have believed it would have stirred so much strong emotion. That was a wee bit of thinking about what is wrong with the system and to offer a plausible idea about what to do to fix it. There is ZERO chance that any such program will be implemented, whether you love it or hate it. It was just a vehicle for discussion.

Going back beyond that post, my basic point is that the whole economic system we have set up is very faulty. It has relegated us to the status of 'consumers' as opposed to citizens. My point, with roots going back to 1933 and Bertrand Russel and beyond, is that we make enough stuff without working 40 hours per week. However, we have a human need to feel as if we are needed. Keynesy realized this came up with 'consumerism' as a way of feed the need.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')Is it cruel to tell a paper pusher who once made $150k, that he was never worth that, he was a leech, and was tolerated simply because everyone was making lots of money in a bubble and no one took the time to really figure out how badly he sucked? Yeah, its cruel. Sometimes the truth is cruel.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'I') have never felt so misunderstood by so many.

[Cog]

Newfie's "solutions" usually involve more government intervention into people's life instead of less. As if government actually solves anything.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'N')ewfie's "solutions" usually involve more government intervention into people's life instead of less. As if government actually solves anything.

[Newfie]

Agent,

You have convinced me that you truly love what you do. And that you would love to do it in spite of consequences.

I don't particularly like your answer, but I feel it is honest & thoughtful. Thanks for that.

The base point I was trying to get to is that we have too many people making too much junk that is not needed. Making all that junk furthers our demise.

I have no clue what you do or how valuable it is so I am not commenting you anything personal what-so-ever.

But..........sailing the Gulf sounds OK to me.

[Cog]

So Newfie is now the arbiter on what is junk and who are the useless people he wants to retire

What a surprise.

Why not just kill people when they reach 62? Then you can solve both the Medicare and job problem in one shot.

The progressives never get tired of tinkering around into other's private business. Much be some genetic sort of compulsion.

[Newfie]

Ahhh.... another thoughtful response....full of content.

[Cog]

You should work more at work. Unless of course your boss finds you more productive posting on internet forums than doing company business.

[AdTheNad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'A')hhh.... another thoughtful response....full of content.