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THE Unemployment Thread pt 2 (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby Cog » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 13:14:15

There is another assumption in play here by HR managers. They figure if you are unemployed then you were cut loose as the dead wood at some other company. Why should they take a chance on you when they could hire someone who wasn't cut loose?

It sounds unfair and most likely is ,but its the new reality out there right now.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby AgentR11 » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 13:18:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('prajeshbhat', 'I') don't get the rationale behind this filtration criteria anyway. Shouldn't experience be the first priority?


Not really. This filtering criteria makes a *lot* of sense from a business standpoint; if you are someone that is hiring, if you restrict yourself to those who are currently employed, you can almost certainly be assured that the person you hire will bring much more income to the company than they cost in terms of wages and benefits. It is also safe to assume for the most part, that those without a job, have become so because they were costing their companies more money than they were making, and thus were a drain on resources, not a source.

This also plays into the EMRATIO chart I post from time to time; people think unemployment is high right now, but unemployment only measures the number of people that WANT a job vs what is available. The real chart, EMRATIO, describes a situation where a measurable percentage of the population went from understanding they had no business working for wages, to assuming that they should be given a job if they wanted one. The current economy and bubblesplat is returning the employment ratio to where it should be; and all that is left is for these folks to understand that they should not be working for wages. House prices and expectations that worthy wage earners have about additional household income will need to come into line with the return of reasonableness, but I suspect it will all work itself out in this decade.

edits: grammar disasters...
Last edited by AgentR11 on Sun 14 Aug 2011, 13:31:39, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby diemos » Sun 14 Aug 2011, 13:21:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')hey figure if you are unemployed then you were cut loose as the dead wood at some other company.


The rules of employment are the same as the rules of dating.

You're never appreciated unless the other person is afraid they might lose you.
You're never as attractive as when someone else wants you.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby dissident » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 07:55:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('prajeshbhat', '
')I don't get the rationale behind this filtration criteria anyway. Shouldn't experience be the first priority?


Since the jobs are being offshored to places such as China they don't need the same level of US employment as in the past. This is just BS to shift attention away from that fact. Basically a blame the victim policy. The dead wood is the US worker and the days are numbered for the ones who still are employed.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 12:32:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'N')ot really. This filtering criteria makes a *lot* of sense from a business standpoint; if you are someone that is hiring, if you restrict yourself to those who are currently employed, you can almost certainly be assured that the person you hire will bring much more income to the company than they cost in terms of wages and benefits.


Agent,

A whole lot of inhumane and anti-social practices make fantastic sense "from a business standpoint."

Illegal immigrant labor who you can abuse and pay less than minimum and keep in a shack on your tomato farm MAKES GREAT SENSE from "a business standpoint."

Low wage, no benefit part time employees make perfect sense "from a business standpoint."

Fascism makes great sense "from a business standpoint."

War is good, the more the better, "from a business standpoint."

Not hiring women is rational and logical "from a business standpoint" -- they're likely to need maternity leave, are calling out sick over the kids, etc. So just don't hire them, makes sense "from a business standpoint."

Polluting our environment with no care for human health or the future of the planet "makes sense from a business standpoint."

Adding plastic as a filler to rice makes sense from a profit-motivated business standpoint, they do this in China.

Agent, a lot of things would be more profitable and make more sense "from a business standpoint" but that doesn't make it right, doesn't mean it makes sense "from a society standpoint."
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 14:34:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')[Sixstrings is complaining against "antisocial" business decisions - EU]

Six,
I will tell you more.
In economy of decreasing GDP which we are likely to enjoy in coming decades it is reasonable from the business point of view to close business ventures, other than critical ones like food etc, fire workers, spend money from venture liquidation on needs of owner of said venture and do nothing meantime.
Why?
Because in world of falling GDP which we are going to enjoy in coming decades taking a risk or commitment (say loan) will bring statistical loss.
You must do something exceptionally clever to swim up the river against a gradient.
For most of business it will be impossible to operate in such situation, so owners will fire workers, liquidate assets and spend these on themselves.
Luckier ones will reduce employment to absolute minimum (employing only family perhaps) and try to struggle without great chance for success.
And most of corporations and government agencies will simply get bankrupt and shut down.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 14:39:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')[Sixstrings is complaining against "antisocial" business decisions - EU]

Six,
I will tell you more.
In economy of decreasing GDP which we are likely to enjoy in coming decades it is reasonable from the business point of view to close business ventures, other than critical ones like food etc, fire workers, spend money on themselves and do nothing meantime.
Why?
Because in world of falling GDP which we are going to enjoy in coming decades taking a risk or commitment (say loan) will bring statistical loss.
You must do something exceptionally clever to swim up the river against a gradient.
For most of business it will be impossible to operate in such situation, so owners will fire workers, liquidate assets and spend these on themselves.
Luckier ones will reduce employment to absolute minimum (employing only family perhaps) and try to struggle without great chance for success.
And most of corporations and government agencies will simply get bankrupt and shut down.


Just remember EU.. in a bad deflationary depression, the odds are that you too would be wiped out and lose your business. You don't have the deep pockets of Apple, Walmart, or Google. The big corps will survive, small business guys will lose.. and when the dust settles corps will be more powerful than before.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 14:47:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Just remember EU.. in a bad deflationary depression, the odds are that you too would be wiped out and lose your business. You don't have the deep pockets of Apple, Walmart, or Google. The big corps will survive, small business guys will lose.. and when the dust settles corps will be more powerful than before.

I know that.
I will try to feed myself out of dynamics of collapse though, very much like I was doing while commies in Poland were failing...

And no, big corps with certain exceptions will not survive because their services in brave new world will no longer be needed or affordable to public.
So BP might survive for a while, but Fannie or Freddie will not.
Bankers will get an extremely tough time too and most will fail.
After all taxpayer money already run out... only mindless printing is left.
So corps will indeed fail while time pass together with entire modern paradigm, right down on our restless descent to feudalism and terminal barbarism.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby americandream » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 15:50:29

Told ya so. Better yet to come...these are opening shots.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby AgentR11 » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 16:00:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')old ya so. Better yet to come...these are opening shots.


Its seems over the past couple years all the competitors put down their shinai and bokken, and picked up the katanas for tameshigiri, and are now looking for targets that bleed. The trick is no longer the score or the risk or the profit... its survival and preservation.

Not dieing is victory.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby The Practician » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 16:07:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')
Agent, a lot of things would be more profitable and make more sense "from a business standpoint" but that doesn't make it right, doesn't mean it makes sense "from a society standpoint."


Whats Good for business and whats good for society are not the same thing? BLASPHEMY! TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT!
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby americandream » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 16:32:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')old ya so. Better yet to come...these are opening shots.


Its seems over the past couple years all the competitors put down their shinai and bokken, and picked up the katanas for tameshigiri, and are now looking for targets that bleed. The trick is no longer the score or the risk or the profit... its survival and preservation.

Not dieing is victory.


The rich will get even filthier in their richness. Anticipate feudal disparities as the masses are groomed to drool over the red carpeted.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby Pops » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 18:24:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'I')n economy of decreasing GDP which we are likely to enjoy in coming decades it is reasonable from the business point of view to close business ventures, other than critical ones like food etc, fire workers, spend money from venture liquidation on needs of owner of said venture and do nothing meantime.

There ya go.

Same goes for the individual worker. Who, after all, is in business selling just the one product.

If the economy is indeed headed for a prolonged shrink, best to downsize now while the "business" still has something of value to sell and there are still buyers willing to buy.

I love this talking to myself - yeah, I realize no one who will ever read this will take one second to actually consider moving to a lower "money state", they didn't in '06 and they won't in '11, but hey, at least I tried...
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby AgentR11 » Tue 16 Aug 2011, 18:55:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') love this talking to myself - yeah, I realize no one who will ever read this will take one second to actually consider moving to a lower "money state", they didn't in '06 and they won't in '11, but hey, at least I tried...


I know this is a depressing time as stuff that should be written in doomer pr0n makes it into the NYT. The news and the squeeky wheel is all about those who lived large, and want to continue to live large while generate wealth only on the marketing of their labor. But there are plenty of people reading and thinking and subtly changing their way of life; from the rich guy who does odd things to what once people would just call his vacation house, to the professionals who come to realize they are making an obnoxious boat ton of money by global standards, and might want to do things to preserve it instead of put it on display, to the poor who might look for ways for a community to support itself absent significant inflows of cash.

Just because they do not post, does not make them a fantasy.

Just because the news doesn't cover the quiet professional living in a less expensive neighborhood, doesn't make his home any less affordable.

Just because the Wall Street press only covers the trader with the bug out bag and off grid house as a loon, doesn't change the fact that he can drop what he's doing on a whim and bail.

They may not all preemptively move to the farm, it makes no sense for me to do that either at the moment, but many read what you write and take it for the heads up warning it is.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby Loki » Wed 17 Aug 2011, 15:26:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')The rich will get even filthier in their richness. Anticipate feudal disparities as the masses are groomed to drool over the red carpeted.

We don't really have to anticipate these "feudal disparities," we're already seeing them, have been for years. But I agree it will get worse before the peasants finally bust out the torches and pitchforks.

The concentration of wealth in this country has reached truly obscene levels. I always enjoy it when some Rushbot gets incensed that the rich (allegedly) pay most of the taxes in this country----well no shit Sherlock, they make/have most of the money :roll:

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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 17 Aug 2011, 15:35:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'T')he concentration of wealth in this country has reached truly obscene levels. I always enjoy it when some Rushbot gets incensed that the rich (allegedly) pay most of the taxes in this country----well no shit Sherlock, they make/have most of the money :roll:


There's a sayin' in the South.

You can't get blood from a turnip.

Republicans, if you want your wars and corporate bailouts then I'm sorry you will have to pay more taxes. The poor are busted.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby Loki » Wed 17 Aug 2011, 15:38:16

Re. the OP, it's certainly unfair that the long-term unemployed are often rejected out of hand. But it's not surprising, especially in technical fields. The exact same thing happened in the 1930s, the long-term unemployed and those who worked for the WPA/CCC/etc were shunned by private employers.

One of the many reasons that you should do EVERYTHING you can to avoid being one of the structurally unemployed. It may mean taking work that is "beneath you," even if it pays less than unemployment. I took a job on a farm and slashed my monthly budget by half after a layoff in Dec 09---could have made more if I had stayed on unemployment, which I could have done for, what is now, 18 months or some such nonsense? If I had stayed on unemployment for 18 mos I don't think I'd deserve a job.

Unemployment insurance is a great thing, but I think it should be limited to 6 months or so, with stricter job search requirements.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby americandream » Wed 17 Aug 2011, 16:41:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'R')e. the OP, it's certainly unfair that the long-term unemployed are often rejected out of hand. But it's not surprising, especially in technical fields. The exact same thing happened in the 1930s, the long-term unemployed and those who worked for the WPA/CCC/etc were shunned by private employers.

One of the many reasons that you should do EVERYTHING you can to avoid being one of the structurally unemployed. It may mean taking work that is "beneath you," even if it pays less than unemployment. I took a job on a farm and slashed my monthly budget by half after a layoff in Dec 09---could have made more if I had stayed on unemployment, which I could have done for, what is now, 18 months or some such nonsense? If I had stayed on unemployment for 18 mos I don't think I'd deserve a job.

Unemployment insurance is a great thing, but I think it should be limited to 6 months or so, with stricter job search requirements.


Beneifts worldwide have a limited tenure. I suspect they will be replaced by loans at some stage, using homes/assets as collateral where the claimant has any. Or some form of inter-generational shifting of the debt burden. In a nutshell, some mechanism that ensures that the claimant's debt is essentially enforceable.

Benefits are necessary in ensuring that the consumer chain is not disrupted.....in essence benefits end up on the profit statements of investors and entrepreneurs and to remove that massive element of profit would not go down too well with the JIT model of sales. Which is why their replacement will call for some creative accounting.
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 17 Aug 2011, 16:54:50

I tried advocating for taking the cash element out of welfare payments altogether (with the full backing of the entire elder's committee on the community) to encourage young people in remote communities to get working and off welfare.
Was repeatedly beaten down with the argument: "You can't compete with existing businesses!" So alcohol and fuel sellers can keep reaping their chunk, along with the junk food sellers, we can't have soup kitchens or prison farms, "NO!"
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Re: Now Hiring: Unemployed Need Not Apply

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 17 Aug 2011, 17:07:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')I love this talking to myself - yeah, I realize no one who will ever read this will take one second to actually consider moving to a lower "money state", they didn't in '06 and they won't in '11, but hey, at least I tried...


Pops, if you mean "low cost of living area/lifestyle" by 'lower "money state"', then Kudos. This is such a common sense solution that I find it baffling that it is so rarely utilized.

Whether this is by physically moving to where better housing can be had for perhaps 20% or less of the cost of housing in "popular" or "fancy" areas -- or simply by living in a modest apartment instead of a McMansion.

Another benefit, IMO, is a generally much lower stress type of lifestyle can be had -- far less traffic, for example.

....
One example:

About 5 years ago, I had a friend who said his dad had lived in San Jose (Silicon Valley territory) for 30ish years. He started to notice all his new neighbors had names like "Buffy and Jodie" and drove $100,000 plus cars, and wore really expensive looking clothes. Puzzled, he called a realtor and got an estimate on his MODEST run-down house.

The estimate he got was over $1 million to $1.3 million depending on how much work he wanted to do fancying it up to maximize the sale price.

6 months later, he was retired, living in some Idyllic North Carolina town in MUCH nicer house, with the over $800,000 difference having GREATLY enhnced his retirement income. No more job. No more traffic. Far less crime. Nicer neighbors. Etc. etc. etc.

And this was purely by accident. Imagine what a little PLANNING and SERIOUS SAVING could do for one's future? ... No, better to expect "benefits" to be doled out while maximizing spending all one's life (and then blaming it on evil job creators) -- it's "the American Way". :roll:
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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